Fuck the warning System 2.0

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Cliqi, Apr 18, 2020.

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  1. Cliqi

    Cliqi

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    Hey MC_Scout, I wasn't Done! :D

    I'll start it simple and describe everything here, because I doubt everyone read throughs the comments ect, which is where most of the discussion took place in the LAST forums post.

    I think the warning system should be changed around, and focus more on mutes.

    I think It should be changed due to the fact players get banned after multiple chat offenses, this can consist of things like Racism, Harassment, Toxicity, I understand that your goal is to keep the server a friendly/non toxic environment however banning won't solve that issue.

    I feel like this would help because no matter how many times you ban/warn OR even MUTE the player, it will never stop It would eventually happen again, However, Longer mute times still lets the player PLAY, but unable to be Toxic Racist and Harass others in Pub Chat or /Message's

    Can other staff Try to understand this instead of just sticking by the Warning system only? Read it all, TRY to understand it.
     
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  2. Voltwave

    Voltwave Love Sosa Donator

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    +1
     
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  3. samloop123

    samloop123 . Donator

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    Try to understand the fact that a mute makes more sense for a chat abuse rather than something like hacking which would make sense to ban for. :DDD
     
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  4. Siere

    Siere Donator

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    +1, i think longer mute times are a better solution for punishment. Think about this, over a 30 day period, warnings can easily be accumulated from even the smallest chat offenses. Bans should only be used to resolve severe offenses, as samloop said.
     
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  5. Cliqi

    Cliqi

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    Perfectly said,
    Exactly, I don't see why they feel banning off of different small chat offenses is the proper solution
     
  6. Voltwave

    Voltwave Love Sosa Donator

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    best na has looked at the post and +1'ed it so that means it should be added!
     
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  7. ThiccTurtles

    ThiccTurtles Builder Donator

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    This thread seems like a plea to me for people to still be toxic while playing the server.
    The main difference between muting and banning is just what you said, people can be rude, racist, toxic, ect. but can still easily play on the server after being muted.

    You need to realize banning is purposely there as a scare tactic. The reason that banning exists in the warning system when you receive too many warnings is to stop people playing to really push that they shouldn't do it again. If people just get repeatedly muted, even to the point of it being permanent, there's pretty much no repercussions at all. You can still play the server, and can still use /fr to chat with friends.

    Chat offenses are still offenses which can ruin another players experience on the network; the same reason hacking, Doxing, ect. is bannable. While it's a much smaller offense, if those offenses add up to the point where you get banned for it then it proves you're more of an issue on the server than you're worth.

    Obviously the system they have in place is working if people are complaining about being banned; the real solution to this is simple: stop being toxic lol
     
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  8. Siere

    Siere Donator

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    How is it a plea to still be toxic when muting literally counters interacting with anyone else on the server? Replacing bans with longer mute times, such as a 5 day mute instead of a 1 day ban, would lessen the amount of contact a player would have with other players in public chat. The warning system is used to punish what you say in public chat, so your argument of still being able to use /fr doesn't really matter because you are only speaking to people who can choose not to see what you say at any given time with /friend remove, which is why chat in /fr isn't warnable unless you're saying stuff that's really bad, such as ddos threats, inappropriate links, etc.. Chat offenses can ruin another players experience on the network, but what counters a chat offense? A mute does. Having longer mute times instead of temp bans would perfectly suit what the warning system is used to punish - public chat offenses.
     
  9. xHoody

    xHoody

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    bans are for hacking or ddos threats etc. stick with mutes as a punishment for chat behaviour. fix ur server ladies ;)))
     
  10. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

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    If a thread like this is going to remain open, anyone/everyone posting in it will need to remove their insults and attitude and focus on the actual topic.
    Because it doesn't counter interacting with anyone else on the server. People regularly use friend chat, signs, books, or even other people who aren't muted to speak for them. Sure, we could block 3 of those and reduce you to only being able to have friends talk on your behalf.

    As it stands, mutes don't actually bother players. So they just never change. Even with bans in place, we still have to manually issue extended mutes/bans/etc for constant toxicity.

    A player (not naming names) recently proposed the rules show how many warnings it takes to get a ban because if they knew they would get a harsh punishment like a ban, they may have behaved differently. The same player was not at all bothered by getting warned or getting muted, only bothered that they got banned.

    This tells me that bans are clearly a more effective way to convince repeatedly toxic players to work on halting or changing their behavior where a mute obviously wouldn't have stopped them.

    Please understand, it's not that staff don't understand your suggestion or that staff aren't hearing you -- we do. Just not everyone is going to agree with you. If a 5 day mute or week-long mute doesn't bother you, why would a longer mute be more effective than a 1-day ban?
     
  11. ItsJerry

    ItsJerry Staff Member Owner

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    how does it not solve the issue??? instead of muting from chat we just mute you from the server
    i think ban would be better for you. very effective
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
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  12. Siere

    Siere Donator

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    You can argue that there are other ways for a muted player to communicate with others, but think of this. Aren't these punishments used to exclude people from possibly harassing and doing further inappropriate actions against the rules? If so, then a player talking to a muted player can choose not to read the books and signs given to them by the muted player, not accept them on their fr, and the "he said" stuff that a muted player's friend may use to help bridge communication is also invalid because there's no telling whether the muted player actually said that, that friend could just be making things up for a joke and nobody would ever know.

    You also brought up my situation, in which I never said I wasn't bothered by getting warned or muted. This was before the updated warnings table, and when I was banned, my reason was for "too many warnings", and when I was muted, it was for "harassment". I never said I wasn't affected by a mute, I just never knew until you told me that the mute was for too many warnings, as that was never communicated to me, so I instead thought it was for the reason it told me I was muted for. I was "bothered" from the ban because I thought it had been my only punishment due to warnings, as the mute(s) I received never told me they were for too many warnings like the ban had.
     
  13. samloop123

    samloop123 . Donator

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    So you're basing the entire punishment system around one player's behavior? OK. Did you know that /mute <player> permanently mutes someone so they can't speak in chat until someone uses /unmute?

    How would the mute "obviously not stop someone" in the case of a perm mute?

    P.S. I didn't care about warnings because they didn't mean shit until you updated the rules to this horrendous system of bans that include expired warnings :)
     
  14. Siere

    Siere Donator

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    Exactly, you can't blame people for previously not caring about warnings when there weren't any punishments set in stone for an amount of warnings.
     
  15. Cliqi

    Cliqi

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    You clearly aren't on enough to see that MUTING players has the SAME exact effect, However they can't be toxic in chat? Sure they can play and keep player count up, make the server alive, ect. They just can't talk in chat? Repeat offenders for harassment, Racism, Ect just receive Longer mutes, All I see in this forums post is staff taking one side and players taking another, it doesn't seem to really be a mix at all.

    I'm asking you staff to put yourself in a players position, Banning a player stops the toxicity, but also keeps the player offline, Longer mutes, keep the player online, however unable to be toxic?

    Sure friends can talk for them but there friends can't harass others for them? It prevents the toxicity ect. Some players only play this server to annoy others in chat, however if so player is perm muted how can they do that ? They can mute evade and then get banned for that?
     
  16. Snakehammer19

    Snakehammer19 An Adult with Mediocre Talents Donator

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    With a title saying "Fuck the warning System" and "Fuck the warning System 2.0", it feels like more of a hate thread than a suggestion thread.

    It's starting to get more heated in the comments than the actual topic itself.



    Anyhow, the warning system is there to make sure people don't break the rules. If you break them, you pay the consequences. Simple as that.

    Your idea here is to keep the warning system consistent with 1 source of punishment. Why give someone the same punishment over and over if they continue to break the rules when they come out of that? It just means the message isn't sticking well with the rulebreaker and another way of punishment is needed. They need to learn the weight of their mistakes.


    It has solved the issue quite a number of times. Due to a rulebreaker's inconsistency to learn from their mistakes from their bad behavior, banning them from the server means they don't get to play because of their bad behavior.


    This does not stop the problem at all. People can STILL show their expressions of these factors while playing despite being muted. Just because they're muted doesn't mean that they can't do other stuff to show their toxicity. Making the message not stick in the rulebreaker's head.


    It's not that we don't understand, it's just that we don't agree.


    How? You don't get to play at all when you're banned while you can still play when you're muted. A mute is lighter than a ban.


    People are allowed to have opposing opinions and give feedback or criticism on what they do not understand or comply with. Just because they say similar things doesn't mean they abide by side taking.


    There are other methods of showing toxicity rather than just bypassing you know.

    Yes, they can get friends to harass in their place. Some people will harass others because of their friends. They'll risk the same situation you are in to do it.

    I personally do not see a problem with how the warning system is now. As someone who has broken the rules before and was punished for it, I try not to do it again to prevent harsher punishments.
     
  17. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

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    The warning table never changed. It's actually the same warning table that was created for the warning system since before I even became a staff member except that the first warning used to Kick players and now it just tells you to watch your behavior.
    So, as a side-suggestion here, you think it would be more clear if it said "too many warnings" when the warning system mutes you?
    This also never changed. The warning system does not take expired warnings into account. You have to be pretty toxic and pretty abusive of our warning system to ever get consideration for your expired warnings.
    They can, I already commented about 4 different ways players actively bypass their mute. It's also pretty common that players get warnings for saying things on behalf of their friends and then complain.

    So, what exactly is your proposal for warnings? Right now you have to be warned 6 times, been muted 4 times for a total of 7 days and 8 hours muted before a ban is considered. How many mutes and for how long to be muted do you think will improve your behavior in place of a 1-day ban?
     
  18. Cliqi

    Cliqi

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    Okay, How else are we meant to be toxic if we're perm muted and not bypassing the mute?

    Okay if they listen to their friend and harass others thats on them? then they start getting mutes eventually to a perm mute?


    Okay Mute them too then? How difficult?


    I understand your guy's "Solution" However it works for a little bit, but eventually that player will slip up and be toxic again. However longer mutes prevent the toxicity, and allows them to play your server.
    --- Post merged ---
    Your bypasses don't make any sense Ezzerland, The goal of a mute is to prevent them from being toxic in pub chat. Simple as that? Sure there friends can talk for them but they aren't spreading toxicity to the public chat, If they did mute the friend too? Sure they can talk to friends in friend chat, But its not like they can ruin the public chat?

    If you know me enough you know I struggle with timing things ect,
    I'm saying get rid of warning system, OR get rid of the bans that occur with it, Make the mutes longer, eventually leading up to a perm mute that can maybe be appealable, if not make them buy it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  19. Siere

    Siere Donator

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    What you said is that I was only bothered by the ban that I received for having too many warnings, when I was bothered by the 2 day mute I received, but I thought it was for a completely different reason than warnings, as it said "harassment" instead of "too many warnings". It's inconsistent and confuses me, as I never knew I was muted for having too many warnings, as I wasn't told that, so your argument of me "only being bothered by the ban" and not warnings or mutes is completely false because I never even knew I was muted for having too many warnings.
     
  20. Snakehammer19

    Snakehammer19 An Adult with Mediocre Talents Donator

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    Targeting, Preventing or blocking someone from playing a certain game, Creative Plot usages, getting a friend to do it, callout posts, false reporting, possibly buying an unmute to do the same thing (if you're not blacklisted), consistently following a player if they already asked you to stop on multiple occasions, and some other stuff. There are quite a few methods people can create, but these are some of the main ones.



    Again, why only mute them when they can learn the weight of the mistakes when they start getting banned for it? A consistent punishment wouldn't exactly stick in their heads knowing they can create more ways of showing their bad behavior while playing. There are other factors you have to consider before issuing a punishment.


    Are you sure about that?
     
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