2024 Election Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion / Real life stuff' started by daddymemegod69, Jul 15, 2024.

?

Who are you voting for in the 2024 Election?

This poll will close on Nov 15, 2024 at 4:42 PM.
  1. Donald Trump (R)

    16.7%
  2. Joe Biden (D)

    16.7%
  3. (R) Ticket - Trump will be incapacitated/off ballot

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. (D) Ticket - Biden will be incapacitated/off ballot

    50.0%
  5. Other/write-in - Comment

    16.7%
  1. daddymemegod69

    daddymemegod69 Donator

    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    946
    Hey yall, I haven't seen one of these up yet so I figured I'd make one.

    This election cycle is shaping up to be pretty crazy, especially after last month's debate and the attempted assassination on Trump this weekend. I'm wondering what the Americans on the forums think. Non-American viewpoints are welcome, but I'm primarily interested in those folks who are legally able to vote in this election.

    I am an anarchocapitalist and my viewpoints will reflect that; good, bad or ugly.

    For the last election in 2020, I voted for Trump and would've told you I'm a right-leaning centrist. Now, after experiencing Biden's presidency and being employed off-and-on by insiders at the DNC (seen/heard some shit), I am about as right wing as they get. I want the federal government blown up (not explosions Mr. FBI agent, people fired and agencies gutted). I want my tax dollars to not be wasted on bullshit programs and foreign wars. I want American policies to reflect the priorities of Americans.

    Trump and Biden both got a covid year (20 and 21). You take those years out, we're comparing 2017-19 and 2022-24. In nearly every measurable way, America was better off in 17-19 than 22-24. Biden's administration is some of the most pandering, scripted Hollywood-esque, borderline deceitful politicking we've seen in years and I'm ready for it to be gone. Biden and his team exude weakness, I want strength and leadership.

    My five hot button issues are: America First policies, ban lobbying, ban DEI/affirmative action initiatives, ban foreign land ownership, and enact congressional term limits. Trump can only be counted for one, maybe two of those items. Biden doesn't sniff any. I see political developments of Europe which are results of, effectively, importing the third world and becoming the third world. I see what's happening in Europe and I see America trending in that direction, and there is almost nothing more repulsive.

    Trump is not some messiah figure for me, I have my issues (greenlighting unproven vaccine, bump stock bans, covid handling) with him despite being as far right as I am. I donated $500 after his first indictment last year and after the attempted assassination attempt, I donated $1000 (split between his campaign and shooting victim fund). It's not my problem if people are under some delusion he's a fascist or some sort of Hitler figure. A jar of my piss could run this country better than Biden's walking corpse, his team of DEI hires, and the puppetmaster Obama "running the show from his basement".

    Anyway, sound off. I've talked politics on these forums before, I know most people on here don't feel the way I do. Let's hear it anyway and have a civil discussion. Vote in the poll! I think given everything that's recently happened, there's a non-zero chance that Trump or Biden could be off the ballot for whatever reason come November, so if you are predicting something like that, there's an option for you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2024
  2. TheDiamondPicks

    TheDiamondPicks Rank.MODERATOR.toString() Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Minecraft:
    TheDiamondPicks
    not an American, so not going to comment on the election specifically. All I'll say is that from an outsider looking in, presidentialism is looking more and more like a terrible system.
     
    t3mptr3s likes this.
  3. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

    Messages:
    6,976
    Likes Received:
    10,527
    Minecraft:
    Ezzerland
    I will preface this with any outright incitement of violence, personal attacks, or hate speech will not be tolerated and will be punished.

    Having said that- let's give it a shot.

    I believe that people deserve the opportunity to be treated like people. Seeing as I believe in HUMAN rights and equality, I know you and I already greatly differ in opinion. An 'America First' approach is totally fine and something I think most Americans agree with; so long as it includes ALL Americans. I am not a fan of Biden, but he has identified many America First policies for his next term. Tell me more about your view of what you mean when you claim you want 'American policies to reflect the priorities of Americans.'

    In my opinion, America should strive to be the best. That means we should be mindful of the politics of other regions of the world and learn from their strengths and opportunities. We should also work to identify our own and work toward continuous improvement. Not the improvement of the top 1%, but improvement of the country entirely. The land of opportunity. Instead, we see this innovation in other countries. I read about amazing things all the time, like The Restaurant of Mistaken Orders or DAWN, and it's inspiring. That's a focus on utilizing strengths and manufacturing a better world.

    To strive for that we should also learn from the cultures of other countries. America has many different cultures within it and a blend of many cultures and yet, at the same time, are very unaware or ignorant to how other cultures survive. We thrive on the pride and independence and as a result we tend to put ourselves first and not our families, friends, or communities. This circles back to the view of policies that reflect American priorities, because the deterioration of the middle and lower class of Americans and overall survivability of the independent person (aka The American Dream) is on the verge of extinction.

    If we ignore the attacks on the people - eg comments like "walking corpse" or "convicted felon" - and focus on the policies - which candidate currently seeks to improve the state of the country?

    For me, it's Biden.
     
    Trevor, daddymemegod69 and t3mptr3s like this.
  4. MC_Scout

    MC_Scout Fearless Leader Staff Member Manager

    Messages:
    7,160
    Likes Received:
    13,418
    Minecraft:
    MC_Scout
    The assination attempt is obviously and categorically evil. I don't feel like I should have to say that but I will at the start just in case it wasn't clear.

    Ben this post is frankly disappointing. I'd hope someone as smart as you would apply a bit more nuance and thought into their beliefs.

    Both sides pander. This idea that only the democrats are somehow the only party engaged in identity polotics is absurd. Evangelicals broke for Trump by 80% in 2020, despite his conduct flying in the face of nearly every core Christan value.

    Idk what "bullshit programs" are, but the foregin wars one is pretty ironic, unless you supported Biden's withdrawl from Afghanistan?

    Total Aid for Ukraine was 175 billion dollars. That's a lot of money, but when you consider the US is spending aproximently 6 trillion dollars every year, for a total for aproximentley 16 trillon dollars between now and when the war started. That total aid for Ukraine makes up roughly 1.1% of all US spending in that time. For that 1.1% US spending the US was able to both expose and weaken one of its top adversaries in Russia. All without putting a single boot on the groud. Finland and Sweeden also joined Nato further strengthening the US and its allies against Russia.

    The fact of the matter is that the US ending funding to Ukraine most benefits Russia. Given Russia's adept ability of spreading misinformation I'd encourage you to stop and think of just how "America first" this poilcy is or isn't.

    What does this even mean? What constitutes DEI? What constitutes a "DEI hire"?
    Again, who in his cabinent is uniquely unqualified?

    Have certain DEI programs gone too far? Sure, but that dosen't mean diversity, equity and inclusion are inheriently bad.

    Again, what does this even mean to "import the thrid world" and what does it even mean that America is becoming the same? America was, is, and will be a country of immigrants. We are better for it.

    Like ya Biden is old and probably shouldn't be running for office. Neither should Trump. Some of stuff he's said is objectively non-sensical.

    When it comes to leadership one I thing I value is a leader who can admit fault. Trump is incapbable of admitting defeat. And it started well before the 2020 election.

    When it comes to leadership, especially someone who
    "puts America first", I want someone who does what is best for the country, if even it means giving your opponent the slightest win. Trump dosen't do this. When there was bipartisan support in the senate for the border Trump encouraged house republicans to block it.


    ----
    I'm not attached to Biden. I think he's been medicore to average at best. I'd strongly consider a moderate republican over him. That said, against Trump Biden would have to do something profoundly stupid to lose my support. Besides my continuous concern with Trump's conduct, the biggest reason for voting for Biden is becuase of Project 2025.
     
  5. Davey

    Davey Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    2,860
    Minecraft:
    Dadvey | Dohe
    whichever candidate condemns israel’s genocide i will vote for

    free palestine
     
  6. daddymemegod69

    daddymemegod69 Donator

    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    946
    because this is an internet forum, I absolutely did not intellectually apply myself to the furthest extent that I could have. I'm having fun with this thread for the most part. I could be serious and back everything up with a hyper linked source but then it's not as fun and there are more constructive ways I could use my time. In the context of this website, I check out when it stops being fun. You could call my first post an unhinged rant and I would agree for the most part. It is a rant about the absolute pitiful state of this country. There is a time and place for serious, nuanced discussion and it's my opinion that a more relaxed and loose discussion is just as appropriate on this forum as a serious one.

    We are all friends here-- I would engage with anyone who treats this like a bar debate with the boys just as much as anyone who treats this like an academic in a PhD program

    The real black pill is that our votes matter so little individually and even if America united under one cohesive political movement it still probably wouldn't be enough to influence meaningful change. America is not a country, it is a global economic zone, and our politicians have kept us fat and happy just enough to keep people from organizing en masse against them. With that said, I'm going to spitball/counter some of your points in the spirit of fun discussion with little to no evidence. Anyway:

    I didn't say this, or even imply it. This is the first example that comes to mind of Biden's White House engaging in obvious pandering to subgroups of his base https://x.com/TheMsFrancesca/status/1772059942448402872

    https://posey.house.gov/wasteful-spending/

    I would've supported a well-executed withdrawal (Trump had one scheduled for second term), not the botched one we got

    Still 1.1% that's more useful elsewhere

    Russia doesn't pose a military or even economic threat to US. The idea that we need to be some global military police is outdated. Globally, we need to move on from the post-wwii mindset at some point. America does not need bases everywhere. It doesn't need the standing military that it has. This is a nonissue for me but i respect those who are concerned. I would be more concerned with china or iran

    I feel you know this already, but a "DEI hire" is a personnel decision that takes a candidate's demo/background into consideration when hiring. I only support meritocratic hiring decisions and on that principle vehemently oppose DEI, affirmative action, whatever the next buzzword is regardless of any perceived benefits. There are isolated cases where considering a candidate's demo/background is meritocratic but mostly does not and should not apply to government.

    I oppose the "E" more than the "D" and the "I". I'm okay with including diverse perspectives (like conservatives in academia?) if doing so is meritocratic. Equity is a lie. You are not elevating everyone to the same high level. You are bringing everyone down to the lowest common level. There are countless examples of this, but see above re: evidence.

    Biden has bragged about having the most diverse administration, the results are what they are

    Trump had control of the border. Biden lost it, illegal immigration skyrocketed in 2021. I have zero issue with legal immigrants. If you expect nuance from me, I expect it from you. I do have problems with flying in illegal immigrants and fighting-age male migrants (from third world countries) then giving them hotels and debit cards on the taxpayer's dime. I have a problem with people whose literal first act in this country is breaking the law. I have a problem with unelected bureaucrats and NGO's (ESPECIALLY non-American NGO's) setting up shop in Mexico and giving safe passage to the border. I love the immigrants who abide by the legal processes and I wouldn't hate to see those processes simplify.

    Btw this is the state of Europe and would only be allowed to happen in the bluest states/cities
    20240708_083254.jpg

    I'm not going to argue with this, but Biden's decline from 2019 to now is much steadier than any sort of decline on Trump's end. Just watch videos of them both from 2019 debates and the latest one. If Trump has lost a step, Biden has lost 5. Also, Trump is hilarious and subjectively will always have that advantage over Biden who couldn't address a crowd without a prompter (and stage directions with pictures). Trump could work a crowd for hours.

    He didn't lose in 2020 (I will not elaborate further on this one, anyone who has a strong opinion here is entrenched at this point and it's not worth the time/energy to discuss a flawed election that occurred 4 years ago)

    This was a weak bill, not sure if he was right to block it we'll see, but very weak and ignores that Biden has the executive authority to not wait on congress to quit bullshitting around

    [​IMG]
    Having shared that I actually wouldn't hate if he did endorse project 2025 and add it to his platform

    i wish everyone in that region would just get their shit together and move on. that's optimistic given some of those blood and territory feuds have lasted hundreds of years and in many cases, predate the USA. whatever happens, the american government has no business being involved on any side

    Ezzy I love you and didnt forget about you. I think the hot button issue for most Americans right now is the economy. The racism industrial complex of 2020 has run out of steam, nobody cares anymore. Same with covid. People who don't follow politics at all notice when their groceries get more expensive. And they notice when their dollars lose value. If your take-home pay hasn't been raised by at least 11.6% since 2021, you are actually taking a pay cut every year that Biden is in office. Then you go thru this Admin's social media, and they gaslight you into thinking it's not a problem. "Fourth of July cookout was 60 cents cheaper this year than last!" GTFO with this performative BS. Americans are egotistical, and they do not appreciate being treated as if they are stupid. I think the Streisand effect plays here, and increasingly so. And these are just my thoughts on the economy. People are also concerned about crime (specifically illegal immigration), abortion, guns, etc.

    I think we are the best specifically because we are not like these other countries. The American experiment is unique and hasn't been tried anywhere else on the scale it's been tried here. I am a nationalist at heart. Are there good things happening in other countries? Sure, everything has pros and cons. I just don't give credence to "look at what <euro country> is doing!" then you look and see theyre paying 50% in taxes. No thanks
    --- Post merged ---
    We are all decent people here, this is the viewpoint I would assume from everyone unless explicitly shown otherwise.

    Staff: if any content here is in rule violation please edit or advise me and I will edit. Don't want the whole thing taken down
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2024
    Ezzerland likes this.
  7. MC_Scout

    MC_Scout Fearless Leader Staff Member Manager

    Messages:
    7,160
    Likes Received:
    13,418
    Minecraft:
    MC_Scout
    I don't really understand what's wrong with those. Weird in some ways? sure. I spent the past ten years of my life posting on a Minecraft forum. I can't really be the one to say shits weird or not.

    This list is wild. Some of it is bad sure, some of it is wild claims. Some of it happend over ten years ago.

    https://www.defense.gov/News/News-S...ope-says-russia-is-a-chronic-threat-to-world/ and https://www.cbsnews.com/news/putin-...hreat-claim-russia-nuclear-arsenal-better-us/ pretty clear that Russia is a danger. Again, for 1% of the budget we bought the exposure and significant weakinng of one of our biggest adversaries. Ten years ago the GOP would be calling that a massive success.

    If someone is unqualified is being hired for a job that's bad. But so long as the person is well qualified for the job I frankly don't care who gets the job.

    Not saying you're doing this, but anti-DEI has been used repeatedly as a racist or sexist dog whistle. For example https://x.com/chrislhayes/status/1772694080239063284 and https://fortune.com/2024/07/15/trump-assassination-attempt-dei-secret-service-conservatives/. Really should be careful with how you use that term

    Trump's border policy was to mix results as 2019 was the worst year in nearly a decade. https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/ and https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...rder-crossings-aren-t-really-breaking-records. That said it's true Biden can be stronger on the border (and to be clear should be as stopping or disrupting the cartel should really be one of our top priorities).
    I don't watch Fox news (or CNN fwiw) so I had to look this up. https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-nyc-migrants-credit-debit-cards-prepaid-240335300869 is actually good policy becuase it a.) is an efficient way to offer humanitarian aid. b.) decreases chances of people stealing shit.

    Sorry but I'm not letting this one slide. Trump lost in 2020. A conservative supreme court overwhelmingly denied his appeals. I simply pose this question of what is more likely: The election was somehow rigged for Biden but then that same rigging set up so Democrats performed poorly down ballot, OR the person who always cries fraud was inable to accept defeat?

    The fact of the matter is that Trump can't accept defeat because that would require him to admit failure to his base, something that, to my recollection he has never done. Trump bills himself as a winner, so when he loses (and he does that a lot) he has to claim its fraud or somehow not his fault.

    This is true and is why I ultimately think Biden is going to lose. A lot of what Trump says is non sense but he says it with confidence. That's why he's popular. It dosen't matter if what he says is true or not. His base dosen't evaluate what he says for being true, becuase if they did they wouldn't be voting for him. Trump has always been excellent at selling shit. It's why he's done well as a politician.

    Actions speak louder than words. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...rump-heritage-foundation-what-know-rcna161338
     
  8. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

    Messages:
    6,976
    Likes Received:
    10,527
    Minecraft:
    Ezzerland
    Do you mean they wouldn't be prosecuted for having an illegal weapon? Sure they would. Maybe in a stand your ground state they might be granted immunity, but then again we'd also be looking at much more severe consequences for that illegal carry than a $75 fine.
    Have you read Project 2025? Lets ignore the Racist, Sexist, and otherwise atrocious bits of material within it - have you seen what it would do to the economy?
    It isn't real love until we share some edibles and play games or talk movies! :D
    Okay, lets talk economy. The stock market did better under Trump, I'll give him that one flat out. Unemployment is pretty comparable. What about everything else? New Business Start ups? Wage Growth? These are in Bidens favor. Trade Deficit? whoof, Trump promised improvement and dramatically worsened that (pre-pandemic, btw). Inflation? This is where we are feeling things the most right now. They went from 1% under Obama to over 2% under Trump to now 3% under Biden (and trending down). Biden wants to work on reducing inflation and continue the wage growth to bring this back into balance. What does Trump want to do? Much like before, he actually wants to increase inflation even more and implement more tax cuts for the rich. From where I sit, that would actively hurt the economy even more.
    Crime surrounding illegal immigration is fear mongering.

    Abortion is a hot button topic, you're right there. Given your indication of support of project 2025, I'm not inclined to ask your opinion on women's rights, but I am pro-choice and pro-women's rights, pro-LGBTQ+ and pro-equality. Health and safety matters and the simple fact is that Abortions also save lives.

    Having survived a school shooting, I've got a whole mind to speak about guns. I come from a family of Republicans who were heavily involved in the Military and we love our guns, but gun control, gun safety, and accountability are just no where near what they should be.
    We don't need to model ourselves after others or stray from being unique to learn, adapt, or grow as a country.
     
  9. daddymemegod69

    daddymemegod69 Donator

    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    946
    My rule of thumb for weirdness in politics: You want a balance of "normal". You don't want to weird out suburban white woman and you don't want the urban hipsters to think you're a square. The video I linked (lazily sourced with a Google search, but nonetheless) enters the territory of weirding out suburban white woman and from a purely strategic point of view, that's hurting Biden. Personally, Christmas and Easter are sacred holidays for me, and if I have to watch the White House waste tax dollars on a celebration, I want something classy. No twerking FFS

    Here is a substantial example of recent waste https://www.ft.com/content/7a56bc4b-d192-4592-8151-0ff943932d82

    No. If actual racists want to bastardize the term, that's not my problem. I've been consistent with my language critical of DEI hiring practices

    Agreed. This is actually the one area where an overwhelmingly strong military presence would be good. What's the Darth Sidious meme about wiping them out?

    Why would it be a good thing to offer humanitarian aid to people we think may steal shit? Why do we want them in our country? Why are they entitled to our tax dollars?

    I have litigated this online and in person so many times, I am honestly disinterested in discussing topic atp. We are onto 2024. Reminder of my perspective:
    The guy disowned it and (in)famously does not listen to his advisors (hence why many of them are "former")

    I have read both the media fearmongering and what was published by Heritage Foundation (framers of Project 2025). Assuming this is actually Trump's platform (it's not) and the fear is valid (also not), here's a rundown on my favorability for elements of Project 2025. As the actual literature is over 900 pages, I asked an AI to summarize it with bullet points. Green good, yellow indifferent, red hate.
    • Economic Policies:
      • Lowering taxes to promote growth.
      • Reducing regulations to encourage business and job creation.
      • Promoting American energy independence through increased fossil fuel production and reduced environmental regulations.
    • Health Care:
      • Repealing the Affordable Care Act.
      • Promoting market-based health care solutions.
      • Expanding Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) and encouraging competition among health care providers.
    • Immigration:
      • Strengthening border security, including completing the border wall.
      • Implementing stricter immigration enforcement and reducing illegal immigration.
      • Reforming legal immigration to prioritize skilled workers and reduce overall immigration levels.
    • Education:
      • Promoting school choice, including charter schools and vouchers.
      • Reducing federal involvement in education and increasing local control.
      • Encouraging a curriculum that emphasizes traditional American values and history.
    • Foreign Policy and National Defense:
      • Strengthening the military and increasing defense spending.
      • Adopting a more assertive stance against adversaries like China, Russia, and Iran.
      • Prioritizing American interests in international agreements and organizations.
    • Social Issues:
      • Defending religious liberty and the rights of conscience.
      • Opposing policies that promote abortion and advancing pro-life initiatives.
      • Upholding Second Amendment rights and opposing gun control measures.
    • Governance:
      • Reducing the size and scope of the federal government.
      • Appointing judges who interpret the Constitution according to its original meaning.
      • Promoting transparency and accountability in government.

    I want to so bad, I just got done with 3 back-t0-back-to-back uhh "gigs" (avoiding self-dox), been busy af, really looking to kick back and relax for a few weeks

    I give you a lot of credit for refraining to use Biden's "record job growth" line here when those "new jobs" were just people going back to work after losing their jobs in 2020.

    Which policy will create inflation? I know the answer, just want to know if you do :P
    80% of money in circulation was printed between 2020 and 2021.

    It's not. Every crime committed by a criminal alien (they are criminals the moment they illegally cross) is 100% preventable. It's no longer fear mongering when you're talking about preventable rapes and murders.

    As I am not a woman I am unqualified to take part in this discussion. Generally, I really don't care what they (women) do

    I don't get when people say this. The Civil Rights Act has been around since 1964. How else can you legislate equality without crossing into authoritarian territories?

    I live in a constitutional carry and castle doctrine state (not self-doxing). Almost everyone I know here owns guns. You don't read about mass shootings here. The last one that made the news a few years ago was literally stopped by a good guy with a gun
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2024
  10. Saul1337

    Saul1337

    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    6,972
    Doesn't seem like a good way to pick which political party you'd vote for.
     
    daddymemegod69 and TheMint like this.
  11. daddymemegod69

    daddymemegod69 Donator

    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    946
    I am not well-read enough on Israel/Palestine right now or the broader history of the region to have a proper opinion (more concerned with domestic American issues) but I'm pretty sure both POTUS candidates support Israel or at least indifferent towards Israel.
     
  12. Davey

    Davey Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    2,860
    Minecraft:
    Dadvey | Dohe
    it's a pretty important issue to me, so finding a candidate that condemns the genocide would be a great way to pick for me, so long as their other views aren't completely stupid (hence why I'm going with third party)

    additionally I don't think it's far fetched to say that I think sending billions to a military/ foreign country that we a) have nothing to do with the war in and b) is using our money to strengthen their military is ridiculous. there are several things here that demand our more immediate attention than supporting a genocidal hate war, and I don't want someone who thinks it's okay to send that much money overseas being our president, while there are more pressing issues within our country that could benefit from funding like that.

    both biden and trump won't do anything about it, and that's why I'm voting third party. i understand most consider a third party vote a waste but considering America was never supposed to be limited to two parties I think if more people voted third party it'd put an end to the dumbass red vs blue we've had forever.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2024
    daddymemegod69 likes this.
  13. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

    Messages:
    6,976
    Likes Received:
    10,527
    Minecraft:
    Ezzerland
    Okay, so we disagree on what the impact of this might actually be and on some of its policies.
    Oh, I hear this. I'm traveling or working so much that I am a zombie the rest of the time, lol.
    You're talking about a one in a million bad apple spoiling a bunch.
    Let me answer this with a rhetorical question. In what way does Civil Rights impact Roe v Wade?
    How many mass shootings from this year were in your state that you were not aware of? Not that this matters, more of just a curiosity thing. I'm in a blue state and we have had 0 this year. I posted this link to also not dox you, btw, since obviously I know where you live lol.
     
  14. daddymemegod69

    daddymemegod69 Donator

    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    946
    For real I always need to sit in my cave for a bit when I get back, esp if there are multiple timezones involved

    Does this same logic apply to gun owners? (rhetorical, I think your answer would be more nuanced than most others)

    I'm not going to say the number of shootings, but only two deaths. Looked at the incident reports. All adults, no minors. The shooter demographics are not consistent with the demo of most US mass shooters. Prostitutes and gang violence. More problems there than just the guns.

    Also, appreciate you catching on! I think I did a pretty thorough job of scrubbing any personal identifying info off this website. At least as much as I could (perks of being a forward-thinking staff member before resigning).
     
    Ezzerland likes this.
  15. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

    Messages:
    6,976
    Likes Received:
    10,527
    Minecraft:
    Ezzerland
    Flipping this back - is the removal of all guns the solution?
     
    t3mptr3s and daddymemegod69 like this.
  16. daddymemegod69

    daddymemegod69 Donator

    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    946
    The discussions are different - talking about removing the instrument of crime from everyone regardless of criminal status versus removing the criminals themselves.
     
  17. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

    Messages:
    6,976
    Likes Received:
    10,527
    Minecraft:
    Ezzerland
    Oh? Punishing all illegals for the crimes of a few is different than punishing all gun owners (or heck, all citizens) for the crimes of a few? I mean, I feel we can go in circles on this all day, but that's not moving toward resolution. You mentioned being fine with immigration policies changing in favor of making legal immigration more reasonable. Why is it so unfavorable to want to consider the same logic in other measures of safety?
     
    Quazee137 likes this.
  18. daddymemegod69

    daddymemegod69 Donator

    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    946
    "crimes of a few"? By definition, 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals the moment they cross the border illegally. Gunowners are not criminals in their default state.

    Should be said, I don't have a problems with victimless crime. I commit victimless crime. Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime. The burden imposed on taxpayers automatically make victims out of legal citizens and that's before bringing up individual rape, murder, trafficking cases

    Not all safety measures work and many have unintended consequences (covid lockdowns). That's why I'm indifferent on the border wall, because while it is a "safety measure", I'm not convinced thats the end-all to illegal immigration.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2024
  19. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

    Messages:
    6,976
    Likes Received:
    10,527
    Minecraft:
    Ezzerland
    I agree, not all safety measures work. The difference here seems to be the willingness to discuss them.
     
  20. momand

    momand God Donator

    Messages:
    3,176
    Likes Received:
    10,081
    Minecraft:
    momand
    I'm going to be voting for the only real candidate in this race.
     
    Apex_SkyShadow and Ezzerland like this.