2024 Election Thread

It's not a freedom of movement issue. The West is literally importing the third world. And it's mostly being done by unelected NGOs. A family of legal immigrants is apple to oranges with this

Very cool of them to funnel the third world into America, flying migrants wherever they want with taxpayer funded hotels and debit cards, simultaneously creating massive tax burdens and safety risks. While legal immigrants/citizens get nothing. This isn't just happening in America. Europe is starting to experience the consequences of importing the third world. The "melting pot" theory is impossible when you're talking about people whose cultures accept barbaric behavior integrating with civilized society. Exponentially more concerning when Western governments are actively doing this en masse. Western society will be conquered if this doesn't stop.

I live in one of the most lax states on gun control and only two people have died in any "mass shooting" so far this year, both incidents considered gang related.

You literally said twice in your first post that you were scared but I'm not allowed to link your fear to the corporate media, infamously known for fear mongering?
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The fundamental difference in our views is what constitutes as a real problem versus what the corporate media plays up as real problems

Also, I don't know if you know who I am or what I do (that's ok!) but I can, with some authority, distinguish between someone peddling a media talking point or arriving at their own conclusion. Your first post might as well be an op-ed on CNN, my friend.
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My guns will always be unburdened by what has been, and also unburdened by what will be

 

Dude with all respect if you’re using End Wokeness as a source for your argument then you’ve immediately lost in my eyes.

Also a right-wing supporter if you can, please define the meaning of Woke

 

It's a video posted by the account where she says that exact thing lmao. If I shared the MSNBC (originator of the clip where she says that exact thing) tweet, do I win in your eyes?

Where have I complained about wokeness here? I have no idea what that means or how it's relevant to any point I've made in this thread.
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It is incredibly weak if the only thing you can challenge about my previous post is the name of an account posting a video lol

@Joeyy havent heard from you in awhile, whats up?

 

But dear God don’t let anyone come after your opinion, it would be insulting to your “work” if someone came to you with a response like this one you've just given me and continue to do to others on this thread with a different opinion.

Additionally, your own logic is this:

Mass shootings happen all of the time. It’s a crisis whether you are capable of addressing it or choose to be neglectful. We need change.

 

The corporate press
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Okay my apologies I should've asked you first thing, the same thing I asked @t3mptr3s , what are your primary sources? Because surely corporate media is not delivering you accurate information.
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Agreed, there is far too much gun control.

 

Mind expanding on that?

 

Sure

The melting pot theory works when immigrants try to become part of their new nation first and retain their culture second. A great example of this are German Americans Post-WWII. Ashamed of their homeland, those folks who came or were already in America changed their names, spoke English in public, and adopted American values to distance themselves from the reputation of their country of origin. German traditions were still honored at the family unit level, but not forced on anyone. For the melting pot theory to work, immigrants cannot hold onto what they left behind and must embrace assimilating with their new nation. At the very least, assimilating must be of a higher priority than preserving culture.

It doesn't work when immigrants prioritize their culture first and becoming part of the nation second. It's worse when immigrants try to reform their new country to reflect their old one (why even leave?). Rep. Ilan Omar of Minnesota, an American congresswoman, serves as an example of this. The leader of her country of origin spoke at a rally endorsing Omar for representing Somalian interests in an American Congress. Not the interests of Somali-Americans, mind you, Somalians:

And it's worse when immigrants' country of origin socially or legally accepts abhorrent behaviors that starts occuring in their new country. If you have further interest in the topic, I think this book is a good starting point https://www.amazon.com/Prey-Immigra...&dplnkId=c656fc46-ba07-45fd-b1e2-d24e7a549244

Spoiler

Description: "Why are so few people talking about the eruption of sexual violence and harassment in Europe’s cities? No one in a position of power wants to admit that the problem is linked to the arrival of several million migrants—most of them young men—from Muslim-majority countries.

In Prey, the best-selling author of Infidel, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, presents startling statistics, criminal cases and personal testimony. Among these facts: In 2014, sexual violence in Western Europe surged following a period of stability. In 2018 Germany, “offences against sexual self-determination” rose 36 percent from their 2014 rate; nearly two-fifths of the suspects were non-German. In Austria in 2017, asylum-seekers were suspects in 11 percent of all reported rapes and sexual harassment cases, despite making up less than 1 percent of the total population.

This violence isn’t a figment of alt-right propaganda, Hirsi Ali insists, even if neo-Nazis exaggerate it. It’s a real problem that Europe—and the world—cannot continue to ignore. She explains why so many young Muslim men who arrive in Europe engage in sexual harassment and violence, tracing the roots of sexual violence in the Muslim world from institutionalized polygamy to the lack of legal and religious protections for women.

A refugee herself, Hirsi Ali is not against immigration. As a child in Somalia, she suffered female genital mutilation; as a young girl in Saudi Arabia, she was made to feel acutely aware of her own vulnerability. Immigration, she argues, requires integration and assimilation. She wants Europeans to reform their broken system—and for Americans to learn from European mistakes. If this doesn’t happen, the calls to exclude new Muslim migrants from Western countries will only grow louder."

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Also, if there's any denialism to the reality that third world countries are less civilized and more accepting of antisocial behaviors (phrasing nicely) AND that you can just plop people from the third world into western society, then there's a fundamental difference in what we understand to be true
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And no, I'm not in favor of any US foreign policy that involves displacing people of the third world (or anywhere else) and more or less forcing them to become tax burdens as refugees.

 

Spoiler

Ackshually I am a good person!!11!!1!! your the bad person!!!11! amidoingthisrightyet

I do care about people. Thats why it's important to keep people's money in their pockets so they can improve their lives, not taxed to pay for wasteful welfare programs.

I also care about people in that our foreign policies shouldn't be displacing them from their homes thus essentially forcing them to be part of a wasteful welfare program.
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The United States government should not function as a charity. It should function like a business. Businesses are not charities either.

If you want to give your hard earned money toward global humanitarian causes, God bless you, it's a free country. But don't expect everybody else to. And someone's character isn't devalued if they choose not to be charitable.
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I'm sorry but judging someone's character because because they don't want their government wasting their tax dollars on charity when they have the full capacity to be independently charitable (I am toward causes I deem important) is completely laughable

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If ever the United States government should be charitable, at least be that for your own citizens. Charity for foreigners, with all our domestic problems and debt, is incomprehensible
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This is a perfect example of voting/making policy decisions based on vibes instead of practicalities
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For the record, I would hate even $1 of tax dollars going towards the victim funds. And the idea of tax dollars going towards political campaigns is so ridiculous I won't comment further on it.

 

https://news.wisc.edu/undocumented-immigrants-far-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-in-u-s-than-citizens/



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https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
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"Using millions of historical census records and modern birth certificates, we document that immigrants assimilated into US society at similar rates in the past and present."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7508458/#:~:text=Using millions of historical census,in the past and present.
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As for the whole "civilized" vs "barbaric" thing, I think it just shows your own xenophobia rather than proves any legitimate point. There isn't Muslims mass raping women in the US or whatever the thing u linked was supposed to prove.

 

Lol get off your high horse and read the book
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What an ignorant thing to say but I knew it was coming. You, and everyone else, who have either implied it or outright said it, are too predictable. For you, I knew this was coming since the snarky "I bet redacted's ancestors were immigrants" yeah like no shit lol, what did you think you were accomplishing by saying that? Not quite the gotcha you thought it was? We did it the right way, and I love immigrants that do it the right way. I'm going to print your xeno quote on a sheet of toilet paper and wipe my ass with it
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I didn't claim this. I'm talking about Europe
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If you think that this world contains no barbaric people or cultures, or you think that said people/cultures not only can but should be inserted into western society, then you have the ideology of a suicidal death cult and I can no longer engage with you in good faith. There are just too many basic fundamental differences in reality to have a conversation
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The claim that undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than citizens ignores the fact that "undocumented immigrants" (or criminal aliens) committed a crime the moment they illegally entered the country.

100% of undocumented immigrants, illegal aliens, criminal aliens, migrant refugees whatever we want to call them, 100% of them are criminals when they illegally enter the country. 100%. All of them. I'm emphasizing that because you can't say that 100% of citizens are criminals, which renders the claim of that article completely false.

 

Okay. Whatever, not xenophobic; I'm not in your head. Mind addressing the empirical evidence I posted that proves your whole previous message wrong now?

 

I just did address your evidence that exists under false pretenses (ignores the crime of illegally entering the country) and it merged with previous post
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Oh so criminal aliens aren't getting flights to their destination of choice? Hotels? Debit cards? All on the taxpayer dime? That's not happening? Wow I must be grossly misinformed
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What if we just sent all criminal aliens that cross the Mexican border to Canada? Seems like a win-win for the two of us, no @dinoceros ?
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If your existence in this country has to start with committing a crime, you are already a net negative compared to a legal immigrant or citizen. Doing so is a spit in the face of American sovereignty and rule of law

 

Who gives a shit. Is crossing an international border without speaking to a border agent the only crime these barbaric foreign aliens that are getting imported en masse from the third world bring?

They come from horrible places seeking safety and data shows that they behave and get involved in society without doing any other crime than the forsaken sin of swimming across the Rio Grande. To me it sounds like we should make the legal immigration route easier and more accessible instead of limiting their crossing.
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This is literally what you guys were doing with Roxham Road, but whatever.

 

I've been called far worse phobes or ists and not lost a second of sleep over it. Hell, the amount of times I've been called those names on this website alone would make a normie shiver.

You defamed me, I'm not just ignoring that lol
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I don't expect you to give a shit because this is not your country we're talking about. Just like I don't give a shit about Canada's policies. Maybe we should consider staying in our lanes
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Yeah, and y'all didn't want the criminal aliens either.
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@dinoceros I'm assuming your home is open to refugees as well? Since your position on this issue would be consistent with someone who doesn't lock their doors or actually just invites anyone in. Strangers, not vetted, military aged men... Lmk how that works out for you
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Can we get this thread to a fourth page ijah nation??!?!

 

Take a breath redacted. I believe you. You're not a xenophobe.

I'll be glad to discuss Canadian politics with you should you ever give a shit. Besides, my girlfriend of several years now lives in america and has lived there all her life. I spend several months a year over there and I have done volunteer work in Louisiana. I'm not American and i don't live there, but I think I'm well versed as to how America functions as a country, what America's history is, how our two countries' histories overlap... I'm not qualified to speak of daily american realities for myself but it's pretty close to me. Do I have a say in this debate?

My country lets more immigrants in than the US does per capita, and my province alone gets about half of those migrants. Illegal immigration is more of a concern for me than it is for you and I'm doing just fine with my new neighbors.

 

Well, it's irrefutably the first crime they bring.

By the way, I would be more skeptical of crime statistics if I were you
Yunier Aldazabal. Irving City, Dallas County, TX. Look it up. They fudge the race stats to make criminal aliens look better.
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Are there any publicly visible posts from this account that mention my first name? Aside from the earlier post on this thread where I was quoting you, I'm quite certain I've scrubbed my own mentions of my name from these forums. It's not a big deal, just a respect for privacy thing. Esp since I mentioned this like on the first page with @Ezzerland or something

This could actually be interesting but I don't have the knowledge or qualifications to discuss Canadian politics, other than I'm pretty sure Justin Trudeau is a Castro

I think you do if you become an American citizen and I think you would be a great American if you choose to. One thing that irks me (not you specifically just in general) is foreigners thinking they're entitled to debates and input in American politics. While america often does meddle in world affairs and impacts the lives of people internationally, my position is that America should be more isolationist partly so we can keep non-citizens out of the discussion. Quite frankly, the only people who should have the space to debate and influence American politics should be citizens. And I reciprocate that position to other countries' policies I could probably criticize but choose not to. My focus is solely on America and all due respect to everyone, i think people should focus on the countries in which they are citizens and if not, then legally obtain citizenship status wherever else
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Amazing. Glad to hear it's working out up there. Knowing this does not change my position one bit
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I understand why foreigners take interest and active roles in USA political discourse. The media has turned American politics into an entertainment spectacle which invites all sorts of audiences, actors in both good and bad faith. I welcome non-American viewpoints but it can't be surprising if I take them less seriously than those of American citizens
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I'm also willing to acknowledge that if entertainment wasn't a factor, Donald Trump would likely be known today as a real estate mogul and failed presidential candidate who couldn't get past the primaries

 

As an anarcho capitalist you should be familiar with the concept of victimless crimes.

Ok I looked it up and what exactly does that try to prove? Looks like either a filing error or an ethnically ambiguous dude. North Africans for example are often dark skinned but not black, and the closest race US recognizes is White. Not evidence of a conspiracy to cover up crime rates.

My bad

Okay, apologies for irking you — must have misinterpreted you literally saying that you're open to foreign point of views in OP. I'll make sure to become a US Citizen before sharing empirical data from reputed US institutions about US sociology with you ever again.

 

Oh, I am. I commit victimless crime everyday. However, we're not talking about a victimless crime. 1) the taxpayer. I've explained the burden in previous post. Flights, hotels, debit cards, etc. tax dollars that would be better spent elsewhere. And 2) criminal aliens are often hired for less than legal wages, robbing citizens of Job opportunities. Are corporations playing a role in this? Absolutely. Do I think they should be allowed to? Well I actually think that the minimum wage should be abolished, but you can't have it one way and not the other.

I don't know what exactly this proves other than a need to be skeptical. And this happens too often for it to all be filing errors. Also, there is no universe in which that dude is white lol.

I should've been more clear that I was referring to foreigners who objectively are not well versed in American politics by both bipartisan and partisan standards
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Ngl I hate to nitpick this because it's such a small thing and I didn't call it out when @MC_Scout and @t3mptr3s did it but you did it twice so I felt like I had to say something. Would've done it with anyone else who said it more than once
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@dinoceros another thing i want to mention is that america isn't solely making migration policy for america. the un, or any "international" governing body (generous term) for that matter, does not and should not supersede any country's sovereignty. the criminal alien issue would be easier to swallow if americans, and ONLY americans, were making and executing these policies. instead we have these NGOs violating american sovereignty
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@dinoceros thanks for redacting i appreciate it

 

Sorry, missed that part.

These people are going to enter the country whether you like it or not. Make the legal route and background checks more accessible and fast if you want them to enter legally. I don't know about the whole credit cards thing but I know damn well if you strip people of humane living conditions and accomodations before they're even able to find work, then maybe this nice data showing they barely do any crimes (excl. failure to report arrival) won't be so nice anymore.

Americans literally don't want to do the jobs in question and new arrivants are willing to. There is a labor shortage in most developed countries including yours man. It's not illegals that are stealing jobs, it's corporations that are not willing to be paying enough for US-born citizens to do the job in question.

Doesn't matter his race anyways, we're talking about immigration status here. Everywhere I looked, it was disclosed that this dude was an illegal. The picture you provided and the case you mentioned give no proof of conspiracy to mask illegal immigrant data.

The data I provided comes from research conducted by doctorates working at reputable US universities. These people have worked for decades to obtain their diplomas, hired a team of researchers, did field studies, and all of it is documented in the literature I linked. Unless you can find a significant problem with the method at hand or the data, we are both too ignorant to deny or contradict the numbers which come from scientific literature. Doing so insults both our intelligence and the hard work of these researchers.

I prefer to believe the scientific literature.

Yes I read the paper in question. I'm failing to understand why you shared it here though. It's a research paper with data that kinda goes against what you're defending.

For instance:
" The levels of migration needed to offset population ageing (i.e., maintain potential support ratios) are extremely large, and in all cases entail vastly more immigration than occurred in the past."

Thats besides the point. This isn't legislation. How exactly do the UN affect US immigration policy?