All lives matter?

Whom are you referring to?

 

black lives matter doesn't mean that other lives don't matter lmao. yes, the statement "all lives matter" is true, but BLM is focusing on injustices towards the black community. people who are offended or feel as if the name of the organization could be better are pretty much just judging the whole movement by its name

 

who said that

 

2 cents on this:

I think separating concept and intent from context could help clarify both perspectives a little.

Conceptually, ALM is faultless and I don't think anyone disagrees with that, regardless of if they're for or against the movement. Ignoring the bigots on both sides then the intent of the ALM movement supporters and, though expressed differently, the intent of the BLM movement supporters is ultimately the exact same - to promote the concept that the lives of every race matter.

However, when put into context (specifically the USA but I imagine this applies somewhat universally?), while the concept and intent of the movements and their supporters are identical, the difference is that BLM focuses on the support of an oppressed minority, while ALM's focus remains universal. This means that at a practical level, the change incited by the BLM movement would unconditionally support those in need as opposed to conditionally in the case of the ALM movement (i.e. the focus of BLM fundamentally targets those currently in need). On top of this the BLM movement is currently physically larger in numbers/support. Therefore, the BLM movement is significantly more likely to produce greater positive change and/or to the right people.

This is where both sides take issue with the other. From the perspective of an ALM supporter, if both movements promote the same concept why not support the one that summarises/expresses this concept better (that ALM), and more to the point, why actively counter the movement or suggest it is any lesser than BLM? From the perspective of a BLM follower, why support a movement with an identical concept but a weaker positive output when supporting the other has no drawbacks.

Suggesting someone is less supportive because they are an ALM supporter is just as incorrect as saying the same of a BLM supporter, because ultimately, as mentioned, the intent of both are exactly the same. However, I'd argue that because of those same reasons - that the intent of both is the same - there is no reason not to support BLM instead of ALM in current context.

Essentially, the supporters of both movements want the same thing, but the BLM movement has a better chance of achieving it.


A few possible points against this:

The focus of the ALM movement itself (not just its supporters) is actually just as much black lives as BLM is.
Then similarly with how ALM expresses its concept better than BLM, surely supporting the movement which its expresses this focus better makes more sense. This aside from the aspect of the movements' physical sizes.

What about other minorities and people in need?
A very valid point. In this case it more comes down to which movement you believe would have a greater positive impact on these lives *as well*. While ALM would theoretically focus more on these lives than BLM and therefore have a greater impact on them, I believe practically the current potential for positive change of BLM would yield enough of a significantly greater impact overall that it would outweigh it's relative lack of focus on these lives. This is subjective though.

Why not support both?
Depending on the method of support this isn't always practically possible. Aside from that I'd estimate that one large movement on its own would have greater impact than with a smaller, equivalent movement alongside it. I don't have any evidence for this though, this is just opinion and may be entirely incorrect.

 

@JokerBen said it best. Most people believe all lives matter, but the people who shout it are counter protesting the concept of BLM.

Why would you bring up white slavery? Are white people enslaved right now? Do we need to fight for white people somewhere in the world. If so, let me know. What do mean when oppression against black people stops. With the attitude of your post and people who advocate for ALM, it will never stop because the concerns of BLM are dismissed. That's what the opposition wants. They want white people to think, "What about us? We matter." Of course white people matter, but their is very little to no discrimination in that area. It's okay for a movement to be about other people without mentioning all people. We are smart and educated, so we know that other groups being left out verbally doesn't mean that they aren't equal.


The confederate flag is defended a lot because of southern history. Sure, maybe some people think that way and aren't using it as a racist symbol. However, it is a fact that the confederacy was created to preserve slavery, and many people use the flag to be racist. No one is saying that it's okay to use the flag to represent southern history. Just like all lives matter represents the opposition to BLM movement, which is racist.

Exactly^

Jews weren't the only people murdered by the Nazis as we know. No one is protesting Holocaust museums to advocate for the other groups (gypsies, mentally disabled, etc) to be represented more. Also, the museums do mention those groups as well, just like BLM is inclusive for other minorities.

The amount of people who use the victim card compared to people murdered by cops, not hired for jobs, and other things based on skin color is miniscule. I'm not sure how that is a concern. White supremacists act an that very logic by making people think that minorities wanting equal rights means that white people should be concerned for their wellbeing. I have family members who post on facebook similar things. For example they say, "We can't say black coffee now, what will they take away next?" The color black is not racist. Obviously people can use the word black. They are not trying to be racist, but they are using the logic created by racist people, which is dangerous.

 

Yes, people from Asian descent as well.
Currently (white, mainly) woman are being captured and sold as prostitutes, forced to work selling their bodies.
This goes for all races, but there is very little done against it. My country it's legal so illegal prostitution is a more openly spoken about topic here, but it's still very bad. There's more branches to this, but this is the one my country deals with the most.
I also brought this up because the post I replied too got me a little salty, thought it was a dumb comment with dumb arguments.

I prefer ALM over BLM but I do not dismiss the issues that BLM protesters are protesting against.
Maybe my post attitude makes it seem like that to you and others but that is not what I mean.
All I said is that I prefer saying ALM over BLM, because I feel like it includes us all and I feel like we need all of us to resolve the issue that BLM is protesting against. Never trying to undermine the BLM movement.
And what my point was of when oppression stops, was theoretically speaking about how people like the small extremist group can start using it to their personal advantage.

I don't know the killed by cop/victim card ratio but yeah I think killed by cop is higher too in America.
Like I said, it's a concern here. I don't speak for America, I speak from my perspective.
I don't think that minorities wanting equal rights makes me have to be concerned for my well being, I guess that solved that?

 

As much as I respect you and your opinion, this was kinda a stupid thing to use to explain. Museums, for a start, include everyone who was murdered they have lot of. They don't just say "The Nazis killed a lot of Jews" they say "The Nazis killed a lot of people"

Yes it was a Jewish majority but that doesn't mean the other lives weren't appreciated. Also, to be frankly honest who in their right mind is going to protest about a museum. A museum that probably holds historical data on all of these people.

Also, I don't think people should show sorrow for only Jews it should be for everyone from the twin studies to polish people. I'm not saying that Jews weren't the highest number killed because its a literal fact they were but, as Asian people and Latino people have been attacked and murdered its a similar ball park good sir.

World War 2, a war with consentration camps full with anyone Hitler didn't like. Majority Jewish, other factors too. Sorrow for Jews should be the most but exclusive and someone should, and I can't stress this enough, NOT say that All people killed matter if someone is mourning a death. That's just disgusting.

Racism, a war fought between people and the government. People are being attacked, mostly Black people. Other people too. Sorrow and fight for black people should be the most but not exclusive. And it someone is mourning a death, DONT say dAmN but all lives matter. They're upset they aren't fucking racist.

Saying black lives matter is not bringing up other oppressed groups. We know that they want general peace and equality for all people but it doesn't specifically say that.

Saying all lives matter doesn't bring up any groups specifically. It's hated for the reason some white people use it to fight against the black lives matter movement. We can't say someone is racist if they say it.

The point I am making in general is the following, as someone who follows the All Lives Matter movement I can safely say that I am not saying black lives don't matter, in saying all oppressed lives, not oppressed lives, war strucken lives, refugee lives and everything in between. I'm saying that all matter and should all matter. The origin of the fraise doesn't matter. Like the word Faggot for example. Some people use it to belittle gay people but some people say a Faggot of sticks or if they are gay call their partner of friend a fag or something.

Long story short jumping to the conclusion someone is racist for saying all lives matter isn't nice at all. Talk to them and let them explain why. If they say they feel white people are oppressed and that black people need to "pipe down" then by all means kick them in the balls but if they want to be inclusive to all lives that aren't living peacefully for whatever reason and are oppressed by white supremacist groups or are oppressed in general. THAT is not racism.

 

So it's a human trafficking issue, not a racial issue?

I hope people do not jump to the conclusion that saying ALM means someone is racist. Like I said in my post and what Ben said, the racist people are preaching ALM. The issue is not about the statement itself entirely, even though the statement implies all lives are equally at risk when that's absolutely not the case. The biggest issue is that you saying ALM and a racist person saying ALM sounds like two people who are saying ALM regardless of how they feel about minorities. Saying ALM puts you in the same category as racists, even though you may mean it differently.

 

the only time I've even heard of the 'all lives matter' thing is people bringing it up in response to 'black lives matter'

it's obvi what the intention is

 

Im not tryin to call you or anyone out; sorry if I appeared that way. I'm just speaking solely on what I've seen/read/experienced alone

 

I agree with BLM and ALM

The only thing I don't agree with is acab

 

Obviously all lives matter in our world and that includes black lives...that goes unsaid. How ALM and BLM has been protested though (like opposing one another) can divide the two.

It’s probs those that protest ALM to oppose BLM are people who think wearing masks during the pandemic is stripping their freedom rights. Natural selection will do its thing to those people.

 

obviously all lives matter, but it's incredibly rude and demeaning to say it when an issue happens regarding someone else's life. nobody matters more than another, we're all just flesh and bones. underneath our skin is all the same.

for example, like you don't up to someone with breast cancer and say "all cancers matter" like of course they do, but obviously if something happened regarding one of something, that one thing should be addressed and have awareness brought to it. like when someone's dog dies, you don't say "all pets matter" because that's just an asshole thing to do.

everybody matters to this world, but everybody has their own issues and you should not be belittling them.

 

So by that logic, saying BLM puts you in the same category as the people saying it with the purpose of benefiting themselves from it?
I feel like a racist person would prefer WLM over BLM and ALM.

And dude come on, literally literal literally.
Of course saying all races suffer from it is a good statement to use here, but like I said mainly white woman suffer from it.
Taking it so literal and saying it's a human trafficking issue is like me saying the issue one race has well others have that too. Mankind as a whole

 

holyshit listen kid what im saying is blm is black lives matter and all lives matter too and they want to be treated equally this is to draw attention to the issue





yeah holyfuck forum kids that's what I've been saying all I just said what I prefer saying ALM over BLM and that I don't ignore or disagree with the cause i dont stand with the racist side of it I dont stand against the other cause by doing it. obviously some of you just have this opinion about what I say and ignore what im truly saying so this thread lost its cause so im done with it

 

But if the issue is whether black lives matter and saying “black lives matter” has a clear meaning while saying “all lives matter” is ambiguous and widely appropriated by racists, why not just say black lives matter?

 

Exactly.

Saying ALM is strengthening racist voices whether someone means it that way or not.

Racist people tend to prefer ALM because it is a way to hide their racism. Not too many people are gonna support something like white lives matter with social media being so prevalent.

Fair enough regarding what you said about human trafficking. I'll revise my statement to the US having no white people being oppressed. Different countries have different histories of discrimination.

Also, you can use the word "kids" all you want to demean people. However, you're the only one using reactionary memes in your posts because you're not happy with how people respond to your messages.

 

I called myself a kid too
idc anymore about giving serious replies too this thread, I tried but all it leads too is ''alm racist you're wrong''

FrankerZ