Random kitpvp ideas

Discussion in 'KitPVP' started by Ezzerland, May 28, 2020.

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  1. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

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    This isn't a suggestion thread, it's a thought pool thread.

    Random idea 1:
    What if we implemented clans in kitpvp, but made it so that if someone in your clan attacked a solo (no clan) player, the other people in your clan couldn't attack them (like a combat log style timer). But if the player WAS in a clan, then by all means, fair game? Say, clan limit of 3 (expandable to 5 via shop?)

    Random idea 2:
    What if we removed all kits and made only 1 kit that had a god set in it (s4 but no fire, punch 2 but with fire, 8 or so gaps, p3 but no ub and no ds, a fishing rod, a few speed 2 pots and a full inv of splash healing pots)

    And then had str, ub, punch 2 without fire, fire enchant for sword, depth strider and troll items as the items you get from crates?

    /shop would still have keys, fire res, crapples, maybe add gappled back in, milk, and then add debuffs?
    Maybe fire enchant for sword in shop, idk. Just spitballing ideas here. Since season turn arounds are going to be quicker, I'm far more open to suggesting random ideas, so long as they still help address the issues at hand.

    Any other random ideas out there?
     
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  2. Username

    Username Donator

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    Random Idea #1: Will edit this because I'm still thinking about this, or I may not say anything about it.

    Random Idea #2: Sounded like an absolute paradise at first, but I feel like getting a single kill would take a long time/too long, and every fight would take a good few minutes.
     
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  3. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

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    Could but with gapple cooldown and no pearls in the kit, you'd have to bow boost to get away and not run out of arrows, right? cuz surely, people will die. Especially in the teams environment.

    Having said that, a lot of the team situation would be solved because if it takes forever to die then you can almost stand a chance against a team and you always have god gear, death doesn't matter as much, right?
     
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  4. Trevor

    Trevor Donator

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    I like the 2nd ideas concept, but maybe have 3 kits. warrior, which is based on sword fighting, archer, which is based on long range, then rogue, which would be weaker but has speed and more offensive weapons
     
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  5. Legendary

    Legendary Donator

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    Idea 1: I like the concept of clans. It will be a good way to play together with friends, but in my opinion it should be 5 players and NOT expandable via shop, to reduce pay2wins. This was a main reason why this season lost popularity so quickly because players would just buy stacks of crate keys, get op and ruin the fun for everyone. I think If you attack a player who's not in a clan there shouldn't be a combat log style timer but instead all players of the clan could attack them. It would be awesome and I would (hopefully others as well) would like it if you could do like a clan based payout, kind of like in factions and increase the payout so like no1 gets 30, no2 gets 30 BC, 20BC, 15BC and 10BC. But the money is distributed among clan members as the leader chooses, and if a solo player happens to win, then they get all the money.

    Idea 2: I dont think this will be a good idea because players that have spent money on kits will pretty much lose it, fights will last way too long and it'll make the game pretty bland and boring.

    Other ideas: I think there should be a rule like for every time your killstreak goes up by 100 you combat log cooldown goes up by 5 seconds but caps at 1 min (600ks). Idk this was just a random idea i had. It would also be good to have a larger fishing area from spawn so diamond players couldn't just grind you as soon as you jumped and it would make it so fishing would be easier. Finally, i think the number of pots in kits should be reduced (especially warrior) because now iron fights can last up to 2 minutes and it is EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING when you've been fighting a player for minutes and a dia person just punch bows over, steals you kill and kills you. Maybe like 3 pots max for kit warrior so players without kits can also have fun and get kills. This would probably be a problem for dia players as well because they could kill irons quicker instead of having them pot 10 times and the fight lasting 30 seconds where it should be 3 .

    Again, these are just my opinions so pls don't hate ppl xD.
    --- Post merged ---
    Actually i think change it to 3 people per clan (maybe 5 if kitpvp gets popular), and another thing i forgot to mention was that it'd be good if it said in the chat what you got from a crate, because atm the crate instantly opens and you dont even know what you get, especially when it's not a physical item (e.g. xp).
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  6. _KingDodo_

    _KingDodo_

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    That would make kitpvp a whole lot more repetitive in my opinion. Also, it’s more fun and accomplishing when you get an item worth of value. This is what makes kitpvp, for me, a whole lot more enjoyable.
     
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  7. ChainxzMC

    ChainxzMC Chainxz

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    Agreed.
    --- Post merged ---
    Agreed.
     
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  8. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

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    Did you read any of the clan suggestion threads? It's almost like you missed the point of the suggestion altogether. We don't want kitpvp to become a "you must have a clan" to play, and we also don't want to encourage the biggest problem kitpvp has (teams). That's the point of the odd approach in this suggestion is to weaken the power of teams while making them officially exist. If making them officially exist only makes them stronger, kitpvp is even more ruined than it currently is.

    You say "players would buy stacks of crate keys and get op" but the reality is it's not the crates that made them OP, it's the fact that there are 5-6 of them teamed and you can't step out and have a fighting chance. Check out the multiple kitpvp suggestion threads. Literally every issue comes down to people teaming, not the actual op gear and p2w commentary.

    Also, how is it p2w to expand your clan size from the shop? It's literally in-game currency that you have to fight to earn.
    Not like we can't bring kits back in future seasons. But if the goal is to reduce p2w, wouldn't everyone having the same kit fix that? Wouldn't having a little bit longer fight mean that you actually stand a chance against a team? Is it bland to be able to actually join combat? Was the end of last season when everything was $1 bland? Pretty much everyone was in capped out gear then, no?
    If the fishing area is larger, how does that stop diamonds from killing you? They have p2w gear like punch bows right?
    And you want irons to be easier to kill in default gear? What about all the "it's p2w" issues? Aren't you just suggesting a bigger gear gap that makes the problems even worse?

    just fyi- This post isn't intended to come across as "hate", but rather to try and pull more out of your posts and make you think. Appreciate your post <3
     
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  9. antichill

    antichill Donator

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    Honestly this all sounds pretty good. I think a lot of it needs to be more thought out but I especially like the clans idea because as of now it’s been agreed upon by every person who bought keys that they will team which is annoying. I think it’s be great to limit the number of people on a team.
     
  10. Embracive

    Embracive Former Мod+ Donator

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    Here's my take on J&H kitpvp as of this time:

    What if the whole J&H kit system is completely thrown out of the window. The system has power creep and it encourages people to rely more on the items they have, rather than their actual skill. The flaws are sort of ridiculous, the kit here isn't balanced. The idea of P3 diamonds being by themselves against somebody with clean iron (i.e a new player), there isn't a chance of them winning. To gain money, you have to kill other players, but how are you able to kill other players when all there is in WZ is teams of diamonds? The answer is you can't. You do not need to be skilful to win a 1v1 in those regards. The server is pushing the message that crate keys are potentially the only way to progress in a sense. Because of stuff like this, the new player experience is horrible and as it is evident in kit (as of writing this post) as I have not seen a single iron not get fed up, which leads to them to stop jumping in WZ, due to having to go against diamond armour people.

    How about instead, kitpvp turns into a server where the kits you use are all equal in their own regard, with custom abilities. For example, on my own server, there were kits such as 'tank' which in the neutral game, had slowness 2, iron armour and a stone sword (nothing else) and you were able to activate the class ability every 30 seconds, which gives you a speed/health boost. However, there were plenty of other kits which have their own unique power which could easily combat this kit, such as a teleport/enderman kit, consisting of black leather armour, a diamond sword etc, where you could easily outplay the tank player by constantly tping around them. You can't kill what you can't hit. This way, instead of the power creep being so ridiculous and the fact that alongside the new player experience, losing a fight primarily because of being out geared with no actual way to gain gear due to the diamonds being the only players being around in WZ, power creep isn't a thing anymore and your success on kitpvp as a player will be determined by your own playstyle and how well you are able to actually pvp in regards to it.

    These kits were featured on my server, but these ideas are just some of so many ideas you can make. You can create so many different kits, even make some specifically for donor ranks if you really want. This is anecdotal evidence, but the players on my server thoroughly said that it was a balanced and fun kitpvp.

    Overall, the problem with J&H's current kit is that it rewards players who team with others to dominate WZ, never allowing new players an actual chance to obtain better gear, which results in extreme power creep, as to obtain armour such as p3 dia, it requires money, which requires you to kill other players (or by buying kit hero, but this is ridiculous and should NOT be expected to bought just to stand a chance). I know you can fish from spawn and sell items, but is this fishing pvp? Or is this kitpvp?. But what personally stands out to me is that you often lose fights due to gear and not actual skill and lastly, in my own opinion, there is no variety in gameplay. It's always 'use p3 diamond gear' there isn't any uniqueness to someone's playstyle, where as if there were kits with cool abilities, i.e one being able to teleport (obviously containing a cooldown) or a tnt kit where you can throw tnt at players, not only provides such a creative new way to play and enjoy kitpvp, but to stomp out the power creep and to make kit about skill again. Healing would obviously be involved within these kits, i.e health pots/soups.

    The teaming issue is a whole other can of worms to open, but the teaming issue would be foreseeable as being less of a problem, as what I see with the teams currently is that the diamonds stick together because then there is virtually no actual way to kill them besides harm 2 pots in a tight, closed off location which anyone with half a mind will know what the irons are up to.

    Do not get me wrong, the current map for kit on J&H is actually fantastic, but I've had the same thoughts about J&H kitpvp since map 1.

    I would be more than happy to help assist in developing/creating this sort of kitpvp if asked. I would genuinely love to see this kind of kitpvp put in place and I'd be more than willing to help create it.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  11. Legendary

    Legendary Donator

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    Embravice could you please tell me what your server is? Because i've been looking for good kitpvp servers to play and as you said, J&H is too difficult to play for new players and pushes you towards getting crate keys, which i do not have the real money for and CANT get the ig money because the second i step into wz i just get killed by a gang of diamonds. ty.
    --- Post merged ---
    "Also, how is it p2w to expand your clan size from the shop? It's literally in-game currency that you have to fight to earn." Well you see the problem here is you CANT get ig currency when there is not an opportunity to kill irons because of the diamond's punch bowing around the map and even if you do manage to get into a fight with an iron is lasts for way too long and by the time they run out of pots an dia just comes over, takes your kill and kills you.

    "Not like we can't bring kits back in future seasons. But if the goal is to reduce p2w, wouldn't everyone having the same kit fix that?" Nope, atleast most likely not. Kitpvp is fun when effort pays off, and it is fun when you work hard of a valuable item and receive it. With there being ONE kit, it'd make it quite repetitive and people would LOSE REAL MONEY because the kits they had purchased would be pretty much wasted. This would also make all items of pretty much 0 value, similar to the 1 dollar shop.

    "Also, how is it p2w to expand your clan size from the shop? It's literally in-game currency that you have to fight to earn." Again, the problem is you can not get ig currency because of the p2wins out there that have purchased tons of crate keys stacked up, and ruined the fun for the majority of the server because as soon as you jump, you die. And there's also very little point putting up a fight because it's a team of 4-5 players so you're gonna die if you go in with your friends.

    "Literally every issue comes down to people teaming, not the actual op gear and p2w commentary" This is a NEW season and different seasons have different points of concern, so perhaps you shouldn't think every season will have the same reasons for people to like it and the same reasons for people to not. I am NOT saying that teaming isn't an issue, it obviously is, but there are OTHER problems as well now.

    "If the fishing area is larger, how does that stop diamonds from killing you?" Well you see there's something called not being able to be killed at spawn, so could you please explain how diamonds COULD kill you?

    My problem here is how different 'stackedupness' of players is. Theres people that would be willing to spend hundreds, some 10's and most (like me) not very much. The very first time i logged on was 4 hours after server reset, and there 3 dia people with punch bows already, and from that point forward it was pretty much established what the payout leader board will look like, and whenever an iron jumped, they'd instantly get killed. Also, you only commented on the things you disagreed with, how about all the other suggestions? Were they a yes, no, maybe? My main point is that the game is not very balanced, and some players have significantly larger benefits than others. It seemed as if you had a pre-determined mindset when you went in to read my reply of disagreeing with anything I wrote not caring about what it was. It is pretty clear that kitpvp is dying, and the suggestions are just my opinions, and i don't mean to sound condescending, i just want to throw my ideas out there and not have staff say "try and pull more out of you posts" and make me "think". What was the point of this thread if i cant even make any suggestions.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  12. Medievalman11

    Medievalman11 Donator

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    This is all I have to say. Let's do it!
     
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  13. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

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    Under this system, is it safe to assume that you can only use the kit and there is no ability to change up gear or get loot from kills?
    The point of this thread was to think about ideas that would help address the issues kitpvp is currently facing.

    This part of your post is really confusing for me. Earlier in your post you say I didn't respond to your suggestions, I just commented about things I disagreed with, but then you say you don't want me to give feedback on your comments or ideas because you don't want to think and just want to spitball. Should I be taking the time to reply to your suggestions to show that I care and want more input, or.. what exactly were you looking for?

    For note: I disagree with adding teams in a way that makes them even stronger than they already are.
    Beyond that, the rest of my feedback was either because I didn't understand your idea or wanted more information. That's the whole point of discussion is to talk about things and offer different points of view.
     
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  14. Embracive

    Embracive Former Мod+ Donator

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    Yeah, essentially. You could add killstreak rewards, like a soup refill or something but you’re right. You could still have crates and such, giving away certain kits if you really wanted. I personally don’t like the current system, as it’s just dominated by power creep which the new players, let’s be honest, don’t stand a chance against.
     
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  15. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

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    Yes. But having small power creep is rewarding and fun. The issue is that gap is too big right now. I like the idea of your different style kits, but that also feels like a different game mode all together (which you also made clear). I don't know how comfortable of a change that would be, but, I'll put it on the books and we'll see.
     
  16. Embracive

    Embracive Former Мod+ Donator

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    What if we combined the two in a sense? *I’m going to sorta pinch this idea from Destiny 2.* Why not have your normal standard kitpvp map where, let’s assume the system I mentioned was in place, where that’s where you earn money and what not, but you could then go to a separate world and buy items like how it is now which can result in sort of a high-risk reward sense. ‘Only the strongest survive here’

    Not only would the main kit be fair with no power creep, but there is also another side to kit where the strongest prosper and are able to buy items, exclusive kits, etc to use on the main server. Not OP kits, just exclusive ones to introduce a new play style or even one that’s just plain fun to use, i.e a kangaroo kit which makes you jump really high into the air.

    Reminds me of the crucible and IB (cough @Apex_SkyShadow )
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  17. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Manager

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    We don't really have the player base for split server. I'd rather focus on one idea (or trying one idea and then another idea, and then another) until we find one that's successful instead of trying to balance multiple functions at once.
     
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  18. Embracive

    Embracive Former Мod+ Donator

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    Can’t argue with that
     
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  19. sava

    sava Donator

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    It's already that way in kitpvp lmao if u dont have a team u have 0 chance. i think alot of players very much enjoyed end of last season which seems relative to your suggestion
     
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  20. Siere

    Siere Donator

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    Idea 1: I think if clans were to be implemented in this way, they would rarely be used. The entire point of a clan for most players would be to stop friendly fire while being able to mob other players. Being in a clan would almost put you at a disadvantage because any solo player that's better than any one of the people in the clan will get an easy 1v1 fight from anyone who attacks them, whether it be accidentally or on purpose, which will most likely result in easy loot for that player.

    Idea 2: Anyone, and im saying ANYONE, who would spend money on the server would buy this in a heartbeat, anyone who won't will see everyone else having nearly the best stuff in the game (unbreaking being the main difference) dominating warzone and leaving the people who don't want to buy anything without a chance. Value of punch 2 would drop significantly, most people probably want it that way because they want more punch 2's in the game so if they risk losing them to better players, the value of it will not be as high as it has been this season and last season.

    As you've stated in the best, punch 2 is pretty much the best enchant in the game and isn't meant to be common. I know I've argued last season that it should be in a kit with flame because it gives a chance to other players and punch 2 without flame will still be rare, but having flame on a punch 2 serves the same purpose as one without it, it boosts you around the map significantly faster than you'd run without it as long as you have fres, which most diamonds carry on them either way.

    I don't really support the idea above, but I know most other players will.

    If you want to add a kit, maybe a kit with punch 2 and flame could be added with a very large cooldown (id say a week), and absolutely nothing else aside from the punch 2 flame and infinity bow would bring more punch 2's into the game for the people who want that, but even that I'm not too supportive of because there would be a bunch of people buying that kit on alts for more punch 2 bows. I'll try to keep thinking of ways that would keep the value of punch 2 up but make it more obtainable other than fishing and buying keys.
     
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