How to make factions more active

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by HandingYouTheL, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. HandingYouTheL

    HandingYouTheL Donator

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    Disclaimer: This is not a thread involving payouts.

    Factions in Minecraft is based on the idea of PvPing, farming loot, and RAIDING. Raiding is an especially important factor in this gamemode, because that is how weaker factions can gain loot and value (spawners). However, I have noticed a trend over the past 3 to 4+ seasons, and it is as follows:
    • Before every payout, almost every single faction places all their value (spawners) down.
    • Less than 5 minutes after the Payout screenshot is taken, every single faction that placed their spawners mines them.
    The issue with this system is that raiding is going to/is already very scarce. This is because there is no point in raiding a faction that only has $10-15 million placed in value (for example) because it would not be much of a net gain in value. That's why I believe the factions is some-what inactive. It is as simple as this: No one has a faction to raid, no one gets on. That is the simplified explanation of the player count of factions.

    So, I have an idea to counter this issue. That is, to have the value of spawners increase the longer they are placed. For example, if you placed one skeleton spawner, which is worth $34,000 (in the current economy), it could potentially be worth $45,000 by the end of the day). By this, I am saying that spawner values would go up by a specific number value like 1.2x (for example) its original value.

    The reason why it would work:
    If the value of spawners were to increase the longer they were placed, more factions would place more spawners, increasing the chance of people ACTUALLY getting on to raid that faction that placed value. Also, factions that place values would be forced to get on to defend their base to make sure they don't get raided and lose all their value.

    Now, I want to point this out. I am not credited with this idea, as it is seen on other big factions server(s). Also, if you are going to be ignorant and respond "Jerry and Harry is a unique server so that's why these concepts are not implemented", don't bother. I need an actual response to this and I am curious about what you guys think.

    Sincerely,
    ImUpdated/zFuseh.
     
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  2. Stroof

    Stroof Donator

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    ok but what if like payout is after school (8pm for me) so you have to place your spawners before school and then while at school ur base goes die how are we suppose to defend and if we dont place before school then we just lose to some faction that has people on 24/7 and more valuable spawners.
    (also feel like this will end in everyone getting raided since no one can be on forever and everyone quitting out of rage)
     
  3. HandingYouTheL

    HandingYouTheL Donator

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    I fail to see your logic. First of all, you have faction members that are in different timezones, and I know this for a fact. Second of all, your 8pm issue is not going to fix regardless or not they implement this. You realize there are things called strategies, you don't need to have your spawners up 24/7. This is just an idea to get people to have them up for more than 5 minutes once a week.

    Also, your concept of rage quitting makes no sense either. If they rage over not being able to raid, don't place? It's not like they're losing value (not including if this concept was implemented) by keeping spawners in their ender chest. The spawners don't magically downgrade in their enderchest, vault, f chest, or wherever they store them. And if anything, you're proving my point by saying what I said up top. People will actually be getting raided.
     
  4. t3mptr3s

    t3mptr3s ~ Spectating Mom Extraordinaire ~ Staff Member Mod+

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    What I see is wrong with factions is....

    Players do not know how to optimize game play in the first week before tnt is enabled (I call this ceasefire time) . A lot of players spend their time dicking around at outposts or in chat. They do not spend their time setting up their factions for a stable income. (Setting this up is something the more successful factions do and do very well)

    Then you have those successful factions raiding the smaller factions who either aren't sure of how to play factions and/or didn't set up properly in the first week. They get raided like crazy. This keeps them from actually continuing to play the game. The top factions shouldn't be penalized for doing well and planning how things get done.

    I don't know how to even out this aspect of game play. Some people just aren't made for the critical thinking and planning skills to learn on the fly or learn from mistakes.

    Anyway, just my two cents.
     
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  5. Ezzerland

    Ezzerland Staff Member Administrator

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    I like the concept you are presenting here, encouraging raids to take place. I don't know that this would ensure it, though.

    Are there other ways we could encourage this? Let's brainstorm:
    • Mining spawners has a chance to break spawners -- Forces strategic planning of placement of spawners, dramatically increases base building time to segregate spawners to reduce losses during raid -- probably not fun.

    • Spawners cannot be mined for x hours after being placed -- Encourages factions to be online defending their spawners nest for the couple of hours until they can mine which benefits active factions. -- Placement would happen like it currently does right before payout or as close to it as possible that allows the faction to mine. Might add strategy behind when to place so that you can mine early and then raid another faction who is still on a timer -- idk about downsides.

    • Spawners gain value over time -- The OP suggestion, same effect as above except doesn't stop mining and encourages placement to be a beneficial amount of hours prior. Might still have some strategy as to placing specific types of spawners early for their value increase and then other spawners last minute for placement secure (splitting placement reduces risk of losses in raid)

    .. idk.. any other ideas?
     
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  6. ILABORIOUS

    ILABORIOUS BEST EU Donator

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    I like the second idea that spawners cannot be mined after placing it in a certain amount of times, the problem is players play for payout so they wipe out every faction in their way except their alliance, which they'd still betray and do, so smaller factions don't have a chance to generate money. I think another rule added onto that is you have to place at least 60% of your value 2h before when the actual payment is given out, this will encourage players to keep attempting at least every week. The only downside is the smaller factions, and also when you mine spawners, %25 is taken off your balance depending on how much the spawner is worth, this will encourage players to also not mine all their spawners since they have to place at least 60% in the first place.

    I think this may be too competitive but, you're not allowed to mine spawners when being raided ( someone creating a cannon box + printing the cannon ) until you have successfully breached their box and countered their cannon after then you're allowed to mine spawners.
     
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  7. HandingYouTheL

    HandingYouTheL Donator

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    The first idea is plausible, but as you said, it is probably not going to be fun and I agree with you. On the other hand, I think the second idea is better than the first because that will ensure factions to defend their base when on. However, just as you said, the factions will just place their spawners before payout and only defend for those x amount of hours of spawner-mining cooldown.

    I think to we can actually combine some of these suggestions and implement them into the game, rather than just deciding on one. idk?
     
  8. Cliqi

    Cliqi

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    Not that many care for my opinion, but might as well put it out their.
    A main problem I see with spawners gaining value over time, you're saying an IG could potentionally go up to 1.5-2m or something. What stops a player from going ya know like around the map, and placing spawners in one chunk areas? Those values would go up, and it would just cause players to constantly run the map.
    I do however like the idea of placing spawners and not being able to mine them for a certain time period.
    However this wouldn't necessarily make factions more active, the problem is not many people are interested in the gamemode anymore. You don't see and faction servers with no PayPal rewards have loads and loads of players. People nowadays only play for the PayPal rewards, Vanity and Archon the 2 biggest Faction servers do Thousand $ payouts, J&H really cannot compete with that, they couldn't even afford to keep the $50 per week payouts.
    I agree with what T3 is saying to be honest, Some players simply just aren't meant for factions. I know this season I did extremly poor lmfao, I couldn't control my faction whatsoever, I recruited players that did not want to do basework, and even I just decided to go for outposts, and pvp 24/7 that had a negative impact, you live ya learn. Players goto J&H factions to learn more about it, when you have bigger factions who play constantly and know how to raid that prevents the newer players to learn leading for them to quit, There isn't many servers people can go to anymore to learn how to play, bigger factions will not recruit the newer players as they normally only want experienced ones
    This is the main reason J&H factions is dying, competitive factions do not want to play due to the small payout amount, and new players cannot stay with the gamemode as they are raided way to frequently for it to be enjoyable for them.
    Anyways Nos Out :D
     
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  9. ILABORIOUS

    ILABORIOUS BEST EU Donator

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    That's what I mean you have to place 60-80% of your faction's value into your main base it cannot be scattered around the map, and I agree since players are stuck to payouts they wouldn't play without it, but iJah was already dying before it, and when they implemented payouts a lot of players came back but still not enough, only the players that play, a few new players but not so much to keep up $50 payout every week for 6 weeks.
     
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  10. zMartinn

    zMartinn Donator

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    Alright. Me and Handing have been talking together about this before, so I'm just going to post my opinions/ideas here.
    - Fix /f alts / Implement, I have no clue whats wrong with it, but if you do /f who CodeRed, it says "Alts" which means its clearly supposed to be a thing with this plugin. Its also something we have been asking for for such a long time. Another issue like this is /f money. I don't want to explain more, but it explains itself, "Balance: no balance". Such a helpful command for example if you go to sleep, and ur faction members wants to grind while you sleep so they can just /f money deposit (amount) (this money would not interact the /ftop balance)

    I like the idea, but I would like it to be the opposite, if you know what I mean. For example if you place a skeleton spawner, only 10-20% of its total value would be shown on /ftop, and it would go up 10-20% each 24hour of being placed. If the spawner do get mined and replaced, the timer resets.
    Some people might say this system is comparabale to archon and vanity. Which it is, cant lie on that one but their system is made so that when you place a spawner, it starts with 0% and goes up by 10% every 24h. I'm suggesting the j&h spawner value to be worth more when placed because this server is not as competitive as archon/vanity, and people might not be able to watch their base for a week straight.

    Storage units.
    I think the current selling system is pathetic, you need to have a ton chests from top to bottom in each chunk which is pretty stupid. The solution would be to implement a storage unit for maybe around 100-250k in /shop? The purpose of this is to store unlimited/a maximum amount of items in a chest which can be sold by one simple click. PS. This should not include tnt from creepers.

    /printer.
    Already been made a shit ton suggestions on this, please check them out.

    http://itsjerryandharry.com/threads/printer-on-factions.126697/
    http://itsjerryandharry.com/threads/printer-mode.126713/(closed by ezz for duplicate suggestion)
    http://itsjerryandharry.com/threads/printer.124996/ (super old, ezz actually looked into this but never implemented it)
    Have been trying to have this added for such a long time. I don't know about everyone else but I'm myself not gona play here anymore if this does not get added. That's how important this is just sayin.

    Base defense.
    I have suggested this before aswell... but here we are since hardly any of my suggestions get dealt with. How about adding a 20 chunk buffer limit and 10x10 chunks base limit? You would have to remove the 500 chunks connected limit then and instead check each base if they have got a longer buffer/bigger base than allowed. No items such as cobwebs, enchanting tables and so on should be allowed because its just stupid.

    Rules/Bug fixes.
    if I remember correctly.. I have talked to you @Ezzerland about this before, we came to the conclusion that cannons that are faster than 4seconds are too fast for the server to handle, and it blows up. My solution would probably be to add cannon rules, 4sec speed limit is the only rule I can really come up with at the moment.. But I will think of more in the future. I don't know if this is a 'bug' but I really want it changed. So basically while raiding, you're gona want to adjust ur x/y/z coordinates for simple reasons. Maybe someone patched a lot of walls at y 255, so I'm gona want to adjust to y 253 so I can shoot through these walls without any problems. But there is this one thing stopping me... You can only place 4 cobwebs on a x/z coordinate. Really annoying and I would appreciate you setting the limit to atleast 30...

    Make printer flawless, pay devs to fix it or something... I really dont care how just fricking make it flawless please.

    Create a J&H Factions discord, with a factions leader role. To recieve the faction leader role you would have to give proof to an owner/admin/mod+ of you having a 5+ man roster. Having the faction leader role would access you to a #Faction leaders chat, where you can dicuss with the staff members of new cool features to implement on the server. A lot of servers got a system like this so they communicate with their players constantly and find out what they would love to add to the next factions restart. A discord like this can be advertised in different faction discords (for example Abzya, I know they are selling ads in their disc for cheap with about 2.4k members in it) If the staff team fixes all of these bugs, a lot of people would be interested in playing belive it or not. Who says no thanks to a small faction server with 300$ paypal reward?

    Hire a factions manager who knows what he's doing and can fix the rules etc.
     

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  11. HandingYouTheL

    HandingYouTheL Donator

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    Storage units.
    I think the current selling system is pathetic, you need to have a ton chests from top to bottom in each chunk which is pretty stupid. The solution would be to implement a storage unit for maybe around 100-250k in /shop? The purpose of this is to store unlimited/a maximum amount of items in a chest which can be sold by one simple click. PS. This should not include tnt from creepers.

    [/QUOTE]
    I really like this idea. I like a system where you just place one chest, and any mob drops that fall within that chunk that it is placed in automatically goes into someone's balance or something like that. An infinite storage area would be nice. The only downside I see to this is that people would no longer buy the permanent/infinite use sell wand in the shop.

    For the other ideas, I don't have too much to say as I've only played factions on this server for 8-9 seasons. I'm not too experienced with much of the concepts yet D:. However I'd like to say that I like the idea of factions leaders having a chat channel where they could all communicate with each other and other staff members to dicuss the future of the server.
     
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  12. zMartinn

    zMartinn Donator

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    Forgot to add this.
    While defending your base, there will be players trying to prevent you from patching, because of the mcmmo, the armor will get super low extra fast. I think this should be super nerfed, I used to like going to pvp with 5+ sets, but now its just annoying. One hit can do up to 30 dura (probably even more) which means armor break super quick and it will get super hard defending the base. While you go to repair, the raiding faction can just keep on shooting which would make raiding way too easy. Either nerf or remove axes completely.
     
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  13. HandingYouTheL

    HandingYouTheL Donator

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    I completely agree with you on this, the axe mcmmo's are way too over powered in the server. Maybe instead of completely removing the axe mcmmo from the game, I think they should cap it somewhere not too high, for example just 2.7k axes (my axe mcmmo level) can make someone's armor red with just a little more than 20 hits. A normal pvp fight should not last less than 40 seconds!
     
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  14. zMartinn

    zMartinn Donator

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    Another thing I just realised is Replay mod. Replay mod should be allowed because people wants to make raid edits right??
    Raid edits are a big part of factions, only way to make quality and nice raid edits are replaymod.
    If you want to knowwhat I mean by raid edits, search up "Abzya raid edits" on youtube and check them out lolol. I personally feel like this is an important part of factions.
     
  15. ILABORIOUS

    ILABORIOUS BEST EU Donator

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    Allow replay mod, remove MCMMO completely and perhaps add custom enchants, but not to the point PvP is cancer, and change the storage units to beacons that can store an unlimited amount of drops in a chunk from multiple mobs, for example, blaze rods, iron ingots, bones, etc. Like the idea for base defence.

    Add rules to how much walls you're allowed, for example, no regen walls, 40 sand wall limit and 60 cobble / obby limit.

    ADD /PRINTER
     
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  16. zMartinn

    zMartinn Donator

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    I agree with everything else than the 40 sand walls and like 60 cobble/obby. I think it should be a 20chunk buffer max because raiding is not meant to be too easy, right? On archon there are 25chunk buffers & 3 sec cannon speed, a breach with nobody patching takes minimum 12 minutes. I'm just trying to prevent raiding from being too easy, tnt seems like its pretty balanced atm so yeah.
     
  17. ILABORIOUS

    ILABORIOUS BEST EU Donator

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    Isn't there a current chunk buffer limit
     
  18. zMartinn

    zMartinn Donator

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    nope.
    Its only 500 chunks connected limit, which is small, if I remember correctly we had a 6x6 base and like 18 chunk buffer, not sure tho