Parkland Shooting

Discussion in 'General Discussion / Real life stuff' started by Stolas, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. MC_Scout

    MC_Scout Fearless Leader Staff Member Manager

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    The point Harry, and anyone else saying this including myself, is making is that t&p doesn't solve anything. Furthmore the problem in our country is that no action is being taken despite the fact that we consistently and routinely see these kinds of events happening. We chose to stay complacent and wait for the next shooting.

    The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again but expecting a different outcome. The US has seen too many shootings to count, but we continue to think that t&p will resolve anything, but is doesn't. And nothing will change until the right realizes that SOME form of gun control is necessary.

    E: It is of my belief that discussion related to the content sated above is relevant to the shooting. Change will not happen until there is a discussion.
     
  2. tobiyo254

    tobiyo254 Donator

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    Well many republicans support the nra which has been known to adovate for lesser to no background checks for people with guns so you can say the right wing nutjobs like trump do want that oh and btw btw CNN is not fake news maybe the washington post is but not CNN they have accreddited and well trusted and well colloborated journalists out there what you see on CNN is what you see on other networks like ABC or CBS
     
  3. vipa

    vipa the hornace of death Donator

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    >CNN
    >not fake news

    This is the same news site that called cartoons fascist and praised an aide to the world's most ruthless dictator. I just had to point this out.

    I also don't know where you are getting the less background check advocacy, because most republicans and conservatives I've meet, personally or online, have advocated for as many background checks as necessarily possible.
     
  4. tobiyo254

    tobiyo254 Donator

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    and I can assure you i never meet a democrat who wants less gun control and second CNN did not praise kim jong un they only did a report about the north korean regime and its atrocities oh and third no foreign media and foreigner can go outside of pyongyang ok thats why you only see footage of pyongyang if you go to places like hoeryong and chongjin its a hell hole and thats why the north korean officials keep the foreign media in pyongyang. you sir are taking the medias words out of context and try to fuel it into your alt-right propaganda ever saw, why don't you get yourself educated instead of being the ignorant little person you are because, the truth will be revealed about trump. you sir probably believe that the women accusing trump of sexual assault are probably liers we need to hear both sides to see which one of their alibis make sense yes i admit former senator al franken was wrong groping that female radio host, but why is it that the right can get away with sexual assault and the left cant. you sir are just a pawn of trump, spreading your hateful propaganda. oh and how do i know hoeryong and chongjin are hellholes because, i watched a show about north korean defectors called now on my way to meet you and, their testimonys especially one of a north korean defector who spent almost her teenage and adult years in a political concentration camp her supposed crime her grandpa defected to south korea during the korean war. oh and third there are sattelite images of chongjin and yodok and hoeryong concentration camps
     
  5. vipa

    vipa the hornace of death Donator

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    https://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/22/...paw-patrol-fascist-cartoon-strauss/index.html

    Kim Jong Un's sister is stealing the show at the Winter Olympics - CNN

    Holy hell stop it with the ad hominem.
     
  6. motocicletar1

    motocicletar1 Helper+ | Biker Donator

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    So why was I tagged?
    The united states cannot do anything from the point of view they look at the crime. This kid was not "insane" by your definition they are expecting a different outcome from a inhumane citizen who happens to shoot a school. This is not some act of insanity its more of a trend that has happened in the last 5 years.

    We have gun control. The problem is in high crime areas guns are not hard to get. But this case is not about gun control. This kid did not illegally buy the firearm. He took it from his home which was probably his parents and used it to kill people.

    No "form" is nessesaary because we have gun control aka backgound checks and ammunition laws and automatic weapon laws. Have you seen the gun laws in California? Its crazy how strict they are.

    What this kid needed was better parenting and disipline and a different mindset on life not "gun control".

    First off, Trump is not the NRA.
    Trump in fact DID say how corrupt and fake the major news and media company's are.

    The NRA does not want to abolish the background checks. I have not personally seen this and furthermore do not think the NRA has a history of wanting to change LAWS on guns when they are the American RIFLE Association. Also you are arguing a point saying that the NRA wants to abolish background checks on people who ALREADY have firearms. Which makes since. Real gun enthusiasts shouldnt need a background check because its a waste of time for a law abiding citizen who is a member of the NRA to add to his collection.

    Ok.. From my point of view CNN is the most bogus form of media. They will put anything on their headline to make a buck. Every news story ive seen was blown out of proportion. The way they keep them "Creditable" is using words and sentences out of context. Also, I hinted that ALL media new sourses are exaggerated and fake.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  7. MC_Scout

    MC_Scout Fearless Leader Staff Member Manager

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    There is a very big difference between fake news and bias news.
    Fake news would imply that it did not happen and is categorically false. Fake news would be all the Russian news sites found on Facebook and The Onion. CNN does not fit that description. Just because Trump calls something fake news does not mean it's fake.
    CNN does fit the description of bias/slanted news. I'm not going to tell you tha. CNN is perfect, because they are not, they are liberal leaning (although not as flagrant as MSNBC). Likewise, Fox is incredibly biased towards the right. Both Fox and CNN have some sort of an agenda.

    Anyway this part of the discussion is probably getting a bit off topic so please respond and DM plz and thx.

    Calling it a trend that has happened in the past five years is not a good reason to sit back and do nothing.

    And while he did not illegally purchase the fire arm, he illegally obtained it. There has to be a means to stop this. The country that is so great surely can figure out how to stop innocent lives from being taken right?

    Do we have gun control? Yes, but it's clearly not effective. When shootings continue to happen at the rate they are the current system is failing, and something needs to be done. To say that the parents are solely responsible is ludicrous.

    And yes, I believe that everyone should go through stricter background checks. If it saves lives at the inconvenience of gun enthusiasts than so be it. You'll get your guns, but you might have to wait an extra week.

    It doesn't matter where the discussion is happening, unless it's at some form of a legislative building no change is actually going to directly come of the discussion.
    What can happen is for people to understand why something should or should not happen. Every American will have the ability to vote one day, and probably anyone else in this thread for their respective country, therefore they have some sort of influence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  8. SLVSHPANDA

    SLVSHPANDA Custom Title Donator

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    My stance on this topic is that a large portion of your country still wants guns to be readily available the way it is. I find that it's ridiculous that your politicians don't push a ban on guns strong enough. I'm Australian so the best example I can give is the Port Arthur massacre that happened in 1996 here in Australia. Right before that incident, guns were readily available just like America. When the massacre happened, our PM introduced a buyback system that allowed people with guns to hand them back to the government because it was going to be illegal and they would receive money in return. Obviously, this was extremely successful and to own a gun here now, you just need a licence and the guns you can have are restricted. The only reason why I think that the scheme was successful in the first place is because as a country, the majority of the population had the right mindset. It's about the safety of everyone and it's not like you can't ever access a gun anymore.

    Now with America right now, I have a feeling that if that tried to happen, a lot of you lot would be extremely pissed off because your love of guns is beyond belief. I don't know if it's because of flexing rights or whatever but honestly, the mindset of America is very, very divided and it makes it extremely difficult to sort out the issue of gun ownership, etc. That, I am willing to understand but so far, I don't see much effort has been put into the current problem that your country faces, which is school shootings and the sorts. It is definitely not normal to have that many mass shootings in general and it's honestly so tragic not more is being done about it.
     
  9. vipa

    vipa the hornace of death Donator

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    IMG_3961.JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2018
  10. motocicletar1

    motocicletar1 Helper+ | Biker Donator

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    What you are referring to is the second amendment of the United States Consitution. "The right to bear arms". Our politicians don't "push bans" because they cant. And not being an American you would not understand. (No hate, just how it is)

    Unlike Australia, we did not have our guns confiscated and destroyed because of mass shootings. I understand why from your countries standpoint why the ban was issued and I understand that you are still allowed to have firearms but must keep ammunition seperate from the firearm, must have them registered. etc.

    This wont happen to the United States because it is our RIGHT to own them. It is not a privliage or a blessing to own and use guns. Every gun I own is legal, and registered just like yours.

    Second, again if you read my post you would understand this is not an issue of gun control. This was not an illegal purchased firearm. This was registered, and taken without permission from most likely his own household and used to kill people. It could have been anybody he chose to shoot. Worse crimes happen in third world countries everyday but because it was america and the fact that we have had columbine and Sandy hook makes it america and the rest of its citizens fault for not having "gun laws" and "gun control" which is false.

    This. Thank you.

    Who is sitting back and doing nothing? It is a trend. A shitty trend. It is so disgusting to see this happen. But its happeneing. This is going to end at somepoint or another just like the silly viral trends on social media. But no one who is involved is not sitting and doing nothing. This investigation is going to be going on for months.

    You can't just stop someone from the legit most east way to get your hands on a firearm. I will be honest if I wanted to go get my father's gun all I would have to do is walk down a flight of stairs and boom, Gun in my hand.

    This is different. This kid obviously did not grow up in a good parenting envornment. Was never tought the safty of guns and the proper way to handel them, Obviously. The only person who could stop this was himself or his parents.

    The presentage of kids or people to "obtain it illegally" without some sort of transaction is extreemly low. I know you undertand that. There wont be any means to stop a presentage rate low enough that its not relevant.
     
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  11. MC_Scout

    MC_Scout Fearless Leader Staff Member Manager

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    This infographic, while it appears to be mostly true, is almost irrelevant to the problem at hand. You are comparing apples to oranges. The types of guns used in self defense and/or as concealed carry weapons are not the guns used in mass shootings. The guns used in mass shootings are almost always semi-automatic assault rifles. This is where I find the problem lies. The current accessibility of these types of guns is ridiculous. It should not be that easy to obtain that kind of weapon. I'm not saying ban them, but there needs to be something done to control who gets the guns and where they are stored.
    The GOP or anyone who thinks t&p is the only thing they can do.
    Right so mass shootings are no different than a funny internet meme? Furthermore should we not do anything about immigration because it's a trend? Should we have ignored 9/11 or the shoe bomber because it was also a trend? No, regardless of what you want to call it, it is a problem, and a problem that needs to be solved. Taking action stops, or at least discourages, a trend.
    Correct, but this is after the fact on only applies to the events in Floridia. Why can't we prevent the next one from happening. Why must we insist of being reactive rather than proactive?
    Have you actually read the second amendment? If you did you would know it would contain the following language:
    The second amendment calls for a well regulated militia. Well regulated. Given the amount of mass shootings I don't see how you can convince me that the current gun control policy in America is well regulated.
    Also nowhere in the second amendment does it say or even imply that getting firearms is a right for anything outside of defense.

    The NRA loves to talk about how the 2nd amendment is being violated with gun control, however they fail to realize that you can easily argue that not having gun control also violates the 2nd amendment.
     
  12. ItsHarry

    ItsHarry Owner Staff Member Owner

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    This is fake news that conveniently supports your agenda.

    Everything I'm finding says he legally bought the rifle himself 1 year ago at age 18. He passed the background check because he had no criminal record, even though he had previously been receiving mental health treatment.

    Why was he able to legally purchase an assault rifle at age 18 even though he was known to have mental health issues? [​IMG]
     
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  13. vipa

    vipa the hornace of death Donator

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    A militia is NOT the general public, so “well regulated” does not apply to the public. “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Please take the whole thing in consideration, instead of choosing one bit.

    This part, I’d agree with more strict background checks. We need to try our best to ensure that guns don’t fall into the hands of those who are not mentally stable, while ensuring the law abiding citizens don’t have to suffer a infringement on their rights. Such solutions are an emphasis on rehab for the mentally ill and depressed, and outright restricting guns from those with a mental health record.
     
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  14. motocicletar1

    motocicletar1 Helper+ | Biker Donator

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    Thank you for clarifying that he bought the firearm himself. I was making the assumption that it was in fact owned by someone else in the same household. (Unless your research is incorrect)

    In the United States, you can legally buy a rifle or shotgun at the age 18 and do not have to consent to a background check if you buy the firearm from a private owner such as a family member or even at a gun show. This could have been the case for this specific person and would be the logical choice (for him) because of his mental history.

    As for him going through a background check and being able to walk away with the firearm having a history of mental illness is false. The dealer would not have passed the background check and would not have sold him the firearm unless it was an illegal transaction. Which in most cases does not happen.
    I was explaining to you what was meant by trend by relating it to trends on the internet and how it will eventually stop.
    Everything you had to say until you were talking about the problem and taking action is irrelevant.
    Yes, it is a problem. Nowhere did I say it was not a problem and it cant just be solved by forcing more gun laws onto citizens who have the right to keep them. This trend is absolutely discouraged, no one in the right mind says in public, "I want to shoot up a school" or applauds them for doing it.

    It's inhumane and sick and needs to stop but in this specific case, it was not taken the correct route to stop it. I was proven that he wanted to shoot people with his AR-15. The police should have investigated that from the comments said or at least his parents should have taken it away. Again its bad parenting.
     
  15. ItsHarry

    ItsHarry Owner Staff Member Owner

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    Was not the case.

    Meanwhile Trump signed a bill making it easier for mentally ill to buy guns ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ng-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
     
  16. motocicletar1

    motocicletar1 Helper+ | Biker Donator

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    Source? I want to read.
     
  17. ItsHarry

    ItsHarry Owner Staff Member Owner

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    Cruz legally bought the semiautomatic rifle at a Broward County gun shop last February, law enforcement officials who weren’t authorized to discuss the matter publicly told the Associated Press. The gun, a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 .223, was purchased at Sunrise Tactical Gear, according to AP.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...bought-gun-legally-authorities-say/340606002/
     
  18. Cloud_

    Cloud_

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    You don't understand the term of militia then; a militia is formed by non-professional private citizens, or the *general public*.

    Comparing the US to a country such as Honduras is literally useless when you consider factors such as; approximately 50% of the Honduras police force are corrupted by drug gangs, lack of institutional trust due to nation wide imputiny issues that impact policies.

    Because Trump and the GOP are a party that caters to the private sector industry; consider the scale of donations Republican senators received from gun right organisations.
     
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  19. ANumber2Pencil

    ANumber2Pencil Resigned ______________________________________ Donator

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    I often see you post this, and at first it looks like a very legitimate case for why we shouldn't have gun control. But if you actually look at the data it is very skewed, although not false, but the fact is like scout said earlier, its comparing apples to oranges.

    1. This infographic is about "How are Guns being used by US Citizens," however a more proper title for the matter at hand would be "How AR-15s are being used by US Citizens each year." There are plenty of good reasons for people to own shotguns, pistols and even bolt action rifles, but whats the point of someone owning an assault riffle in the US? I mean I understand shotguns are good for hunting, specifically birds, while bolt action rifles are also useful for hunting, but larger animals such as deer. Meanwhile pistols serve as a great weapon to use for self defense, because its easy to carry around and accurate at close range. But assault riffles? The only thing they are good for is killing a ton of people in a short amount of time. Its not like someone can carry around an AR-15 all day and have it "for self defense." And if you are using it to hunt, well then sorry but you suck at hunting and should just get another hobby. So rather then seeing how Guns in general are being used by citizens, I would like to see how people use assault riffles specifically.

    2. Looking at the "Gun Ownership to crime" fact, as someone already mentioned, you can't compare the US to low-income countries like El Salvador and Honduras. We shouldn't be using them as an example, instead you need to take a look at the high-income countries, that are as developed as the US, such as England, Japan, Netherlands, Spain, etc. If you do that, and exclude all the 3rd world countries, it turns out the United States has a gun homicide rate 25.2 times higher than the other high-income countries.

    3. As for the "United Kingdom Case Study," it is comparing all Violent Crimes to the US, not just murder cases. Again if you look at the statistics, The United Kingdom has a Homicide Rate of 0.92, while the United States has a Homicide rate of 4.88. There is a huge difference there. See, even if the UK has a higher Violent Crime Rate, the fact of the matter is that knives, and the other things they are using as weapons, are not nearly as efficient in killing people as guns are. Thats why the saying is "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

    4. For the "Concealed Carry" Part, again this doesn't really apply to the debate right now. You can't use an AR-15 or any other assault riffle as a concealed carry. This is only dealing with Pistols, which aren't really at the middle of the debate right now.

    5. As for the fact that Europe has 3 of the 6 deadliest school shootings, thats comparing an entire continent to one country. Here is a list I found on the deadliest school shootings and as you can see the US is the most common at the top compared to all the other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_massacres_by_death_toll

    6. Also with that last fact about Kennesaw Georgia, it is a tiny rural county with only about 33,000 people. So first off, there wouldn't be many burglaries there in the first place, because it takes longer to go from house to house. Second, because of the small sample size, just one small change could have shifted the statistic dramatically.

    If you take a broad look at things, and at our entire country, and not just one county in Georgia, here are the facts:
    - States with stricter gun laws have fewer gun related deaths
    - Police are more likely to be killed on duty in states with more guns
    - The States with the most guns report the most suicides
    -
     
  20. PopeUrbanII

    PopeUrbanII deus vult Donator

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    Way to turn a sad event into propaganda for your political agenda.
     
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