1. Nicohle

    Nicohle Donator

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    I'm not derailing anything, I gave my opinion on what I think this thread is going to turn into.
     
  2. PopeUrbanII

    PopeUrbanII deus vult Donator

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    This thread is a debate thread about DACA, let's keep it about DACA please.
     
  3. Loocy

    Loocy Donator

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    coming from someone who knows people that are illegal, i understand how hard they've worked to get to where they are today. this is my opinion on all of this so i'm not really replying to what was said before this. people don't come here illegally for no reason. they come here to pursue a better life or run away from danger. some people even do it so that they could perhaps give their child the gift of being born an American so that they have greater and better opportunities than their parents. some people don't have time to go through the normal process or they don't have a way to. i'm sure that people who come here illegally thought of doing it the legal way but couldn't find a way how to. there's a lot of immigrants who work and work and work and work so that they could feed their families and support them. i go to school here in America and i can honestly say, half of these bitches probably won't even amount to anything. why not give those illegal people the same opportunity that these Americans have? just because they're illegal? you don't decide where you're born but, everyone should have a fair chance if they're willing to work for it and most of these illegal people or children who have been brought here illegally are doing that.
     
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  4. vipa

    vipa the hornace of death Donator

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    If we want these people to work in the country, we need to have a buffer ground system, where illegals can be redirected there. There, they can prove their productivity and usefulness. If they have a criminal record it's an instant denial of citizenship to them. If they are clean, and can actually work, they can be given a chance at citizenship.
     
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  5. PopeUrbanII

    PopeUrbanII deus vult Donator

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    I agree with this. However we shouldn't count crimes such as speeding tickets (unless they are very common on their record), only crimes such as murder/robbery/theft/rape.

    Also, most countries have severe punishments for illegal immigration, yet the USA is shunned for wanting to step up their security.
     
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  6. t3mptr3s

    t3mptr3s ~ Emotional Support Staff Member ~ Staff Member Mod+

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    You guys can debate this all you want but unfortunately it's not always this black and white. Laws can be changed, the constitution can be amended. The sad thing is that the US government would rather spend millions on war planes that will never take off than to help those who actually need our help.
     
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  7. PopeUrbanII

    PopeUrbanII deus vult Donator

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    Imo we should worry about our national security more than people who came into our country illegally.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  8. ShadowFlames

    ShadowFlames Donator

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    I'm not form the US so it's possible that I haven't experienced anything happening in the US that would change my viewpoint. I do feel very strongly about this matter though.

    Note before you read this, it is impossible to convey truly what I am saying without being told it straight from the mouth, thus it may well have less of an impact than it should. Also please read it fully if you are going to read it.

    If I could I would like to ask Mr Trump how he would feel if he suddenly found himself in a world in which he has no privileges. You would be unwashed, hungry, thirsty, suffering from several injuries and potential disease. In this world nobody but your own son, who accompanies you, is at all trustworthy. When you see another human being, it only means fear. You are alone on a seemingly endless path of dirt and sand, which stretches to the horizon and have been walking for hours without a break. A man you've never met before appears in front of you, points a gun at your son and demands everything you own. Your son and staying alive are the only things you care about. You're in a situation where one or both of those could be taken from you in seconds. There is literally nothing you wouldn't give to save your son and yet you have nothing at all to give. You can't be courageous or diplomatic because in this world, where you are never even given the opportunity to have such values instilled in you, they don't exist. This is a situation in which everything you care about could vanish easily no matter what you do. Imagine everything you, yourself care about in this world, envision it as vividly as possible. When I say imagine, don't just think about it as you continue to read. Literally take a few minutes to consider in your head as vividly as possible everything you care about. Poof, it's gone. Not like anyone else in the world seemed to give two shits anyway...

    When the world is hyperbolic, hyperbole ceases to exist.

    Now I would like to ask Mr Trump if he thinks it admirable to close off the one, legal way out.
     
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  9. noahnoobfax

    noahnoobfax Donator

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    Provide examples of people "who need help".
    For your information though, anyone in the LGBTQ community in this country dont need help & neither do women in this country. Neither do people of white race or black race.
     
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  10. ShadowFlames

    ShadowFlames Donator

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  11. vipa

    vipa the hornace of death Donator

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    Let's place context into all of this. The reason why the average annual earnings for women is because they usually take jobs that don't pay as much as some positions men work hard towards. Most CEOs and top board members are male because they work for it. Nothing is stopping women from rising up to that position, as there are already a few up there. You need to take into account the job demographics before looking at the income distribution.

    No argument on homophobia. Genuine discrimination is something we cannot ignore. However, many people ARE tired of LGBT people flashing their pride in their faces. It's getting ridiculous at this point. I don't care about your sexuality, and if you keep annoying me about it, I'm not going to like it at all. Lots of people feel this way, they're getting so sick of it to the point where they start discriminating. If the LGBT stops forcing their pride down all of us, then I'm sure a lot of discrimination will disappear.

    As for poverty, the reason why whites are not in as much poverty is because they have had longer to establish a life for their family in the country. There is a lot of poverty for blacks because those who live in the city barely have opportunities to escape their current life. It's something a lot of people do ignore, and that's a main reason they have the highest percentage in poverty. Other races also have a higher distribution in poverty because many have moved into the country during times of recession to escape disaster in their own countries. It's much harder to establish a successful life in a new country during recession, which is why many also fall into poverty.

    We cannot focus on helping whole country just by focusing on one race or sex. We need to consider all kinds people. Taxes and benefits aren't by race, but by annual income. We could go a lot further by helping citizens not by their race or gender, but by their situations.
     
  12. iRachel

    iRachel Donator Donator

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    Does it really matter? Who would go out of their way and create "fake" infographics and graphs? All of this is 100% fact and true.

    First of all, the reason why women get paid less than men is because of their gender. Most of the valedictorians in school end up being girls because they work harder than boys. I mean really, it's not like they have to worry about what job they have to choose, it's just gonna be handed down to them. Women get paid less because they have kids. They have to do the laundry and clean the house. And I don't mean to be sexist. There are some men who do house work but it's mostly women because society views it as a "women's" job. They have to worry about jobs that aren't even gonna give them money. Women work way harder than men. If you add up their house work and studying while working, it's a lot of time and hard work that needs to be done. If a man took a "women's" job then he would get paid more than an actual women. This is because he would have more energy to work and men are really just viewed as more hard working people than women.

    Honestly, I agree that the LGBTQ should stop flashing their pride in people's faces but they do it for a reason. People who are in the LGBTQ are still being discriminated and it's not because they're shoving their pride in people's faces. Why do you think "Black Lives Matter" was created? Why do you think there's a Women's March? They make these marches because they get oppressed for who they are and they make their voices be heard. If people were more accepting of the LGTBQ then we wouldn't be trying to "flash" our pride in your faces. If we seriously stop doing our prides and "flashing" our pride in people's faces then we would just be ignored and people wouldn't stop discriminating against us at all.

    As for poverty, your reasoning is extremely false when it comes to black people. Black people don't get paid as much as white people or get opportunities as good as them. This is because people view them as "thugs" or "drug dealers". They even get racial profiled by the police and when they're shopping in stores. If they're gonna get racial profiled while shopping in a store then imagine what would happen if they work in one. Mexicans get oppressed because most people view them as "illegals" and delinquents. Some people assume that they're illegal just because of how they look. Coming from someone who is white (Me), I really do think that we have it easier than other people when it comes to race.

    You were the one who told me, "We need to worry about our own citizens", but then you come up with all this false information. We need to help these people by their race and gender because that's the problem here. It's not about a tiny situation, it's about who they are. This is why I care more about helping illegals because people like you are the ones who say that we need to worry about our own citizens but don't even know what the actual problem is within their own country.
     
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  13. Miner

    Miner Retired 5-Year Veteran Donator

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    If you read the graphs, you would understand that the source is the U.S. Bureau, shown at the bottom of 3 of the images.
    The other image has a source of humanrights.gov.
    Like, come on, it's right there at the bottom of each. You're just making a fool of yourself at this point.
     
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  14. ShadowFlames

    ShadowFlames Donator

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    In general I was just giving (official US government @Messiah ) evidence for all of the people @Nnoah reckoned didn't need help, not suggesting these people alone need help. These groups are some of the most oppressed in any case.

    More importantly, I can't understand your viewpoint that people should be helped based on their situation, yet those most in need - immigrants - should be shunned and have their one legal route closed off.
    Again I'm not from the US but this seems very hyperbolic. Women don't work harder than men the same way men don't work harder than women. One person works harder than another, gender should have no influence. Society has move almost completely away from the whole "woman's job" thing at least in terms of housework. Neither do women "get paid less because they have kids".

    Sorry to pick this out, but this is complete BS. Yes, men have higher paid jobs in general but this has absolutely nothing to do with the effort of women at work or that women accept having lower paid jobs.
     
  15. Miner

    Miner Retired 5-Year Veteran Donator

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    He's not saying that "we pay women less because they don't do as higher paid jobs as men", he's saying that because women take less-paying jobs than men, the total amount of money women earn as a whole is going to be less than men as a whole. Men earn more BECAUSE they're taking jobs that PAY more, while women are not.
    (I'm not stating this as my opinion, but I'm just clearing up your misinterpretation of what @DirectorKrennic was trying to get across. Let's not continue this.)

    My opinion on DACA (which I should've done in the first place), is that we should keep it. As a child, you don't have a choice whether or not you can go to your family to America illegally; you have to. You're just a kid at that age; you can't feed yourself, you can't make a living for yourself, and you will have nowhere to go if you idiotically decide not to go with your family to America. People who come to America illegally are coming to AVOID the danger, not to CAUSE the danger. Rousseau's philosophy of how humans act as a whole supports this. (His philosophy is that humans are born to be innocent and pure, and only turn to evil due to choices influenced by negative circumstances.) The misconception people are making is that the kids should go because they're illegal. Unfortunately, they didn't get a choice, and if they're good people that have made a life for themselves here, then why should they go back somewhere else just because of situations that were out of their control? There's no reason for it. I support DACA fully.
     
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  16. ShadowFlames

    ShadowFlames Donator

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    I think I just didn't present what I meant well.
    Definitely @DirectorKrennic was implying that
    Undoubtedly women in businesses would take these jobs if they were given the opportunity, but as gender doesn't and shouldn't effect how hard a person works, clearly there is some factor involved that is preventing women from reaching these positions. I recognise a small part of this will be as a result of choice of field of work.
    just saw this sorry D:
     
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  17. noahnoobfax

    noahnoobfax Donator

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    oof